Arcus 5 for paramotoring

[ArcusFlyer]

Hi,

I've posted a vaguely similar question in the past but this one is much more specific and to do with the suitability of using free flying wings for paramotoring.

When I bought my kit I told my hill PG instructor I wanted a wing I could paramotor on as well as hill fly. He said the current Arcus model (4) was officially certified (by DHV I think) to be fitted with power risers and used for paramotoring. The Arcus 5 was just coming out and he said he assumed that would receive a similar certification. Not wanting to go for a model on its way out I went for the 5. I got my hill PG CP this summer.

Well I contacted Swing yesterday and they said the Arcus 5 had not had the same paramotoring rating as the 4 (not sure if this might come in the future - I've asked them this today). He said I was welcome to fit the Arcus 4 power risers to the 5 anyway but I would be flying an uncertified configuration and would do so at my own risk. I like to do things by the book.

I'd like to know where we stand in the UK on certification. I've noticed a certain leading p-motor manufacturer sell the Arcus 5 on their site and at least one school use it in their paramotor package.

Is the answer as simple as:

a)This would be a stupid thing to do, go and buy a new wing you idiot.

b)You're worrying about nothing fit the risers and start your PPG training on the Arcus 5 (you idiot).

I suspect it would be somewhere in between. Any opinions appreciated.

Thanks.

[Guest]

Actually the DHV do not certify wings for motorised flight. What they do is to test the wing (and riser set) for its recovery from various instabilities in free flight. As soon as you fit any motor to a paraglider you are flying an uncertified machine., except in the case where a particular motor and wing combination has acheived a DULV certification and there are very few of these. Even so-called paramotor wings, including reflex wings, are certified only for free flight, not for powered flight, by the DHV or CEN.

The Arcus 4 will have been tested by DHV in free flight with the ordinary risers and then the tests will have been repeated using the power risers. This means two lots of very expensive test fees.

I suspect that Swing have changed the Arcus very little to change its flight characteristics so have not bothered to buy the second set of tests.

You might ask what changes there have been between the 4 and the 5. It may well be to do with fabrics used, graphic styling, materials in the lines or risers sets, production techniques..... but not radically different aerodynamics.

The Arcus has always been an excellent power wing in all its marks, I dont see why it would suddenly not be.

[ArcusFlyer]

Thanks for the reply and for clarifying things on the certification. Yes, I think the changes were minimal between the two models. One of the main things they list is thinning the lines for less drag which isn't exactly a major design overhaul!

[ArcusFlyer]

Francis,

Old topic I know but I went to a paramotor trainer who recommended I fitted trimmer risers to my Arcus 5 before flying it. They arrived today and say 'powerplay' on the bag. I think you've mentioned this name before so I googled it and on their website they say their new wing (the sting) is just an arcus with power risers, and has been specifically designed to do both motoring and free flying (which is what I wanted originally). They even mention on the site that Arcus owners are able to fit the power risers and they will basically have the same as a 'sting'. Its just nice to know that the mod I am making to my wing (risers) is actually recognised I guess and is a safe way of achieving a dual purpose wing. See below, last sentence.

Kind of just reinforces what you said above really but I'm surprised swing didn't mention the sting to me in my correspondence, they just mentioned their NAJA wing. I guess I don't know what the relationship is between swing and power-play as they seem to be separate if you look at their separate websites. Anyway I'll shut up now.

Just need a motor now although I may see if the training guy will hire one to me for a couple of days training.

"Sting

The first product which can be presented under the POWERPLAY brand is the STING, based on the SWING ARCUS.

With its very broad weight range and its two certifications (DULV/German Ultralight Association and DHV 1/1-2), the STING is designed for paramotor pilots who would also like to enjoy free flight without having to get a second wing.

The unique riser system (see illustration) means that the STING can be optimally fitted to any motor and no adjustment is necessary for free flight. The trimmer allows cruise speed to be increased to approx. 45 km/h and the counter-torque to be compensated without troublesome counter-braking.

ARCUS – pilots can of course equip their wing (sizes M, L and XL only) with the new STING – riser."

[Guest]

just feel the need to clarify the certification issue here I think...

DULV certify the structural integrity motors and their harness/arm geometry strength with a 8G load test. They also certify combinations of certified motors and wings presented (payed for ) by wing makers in some basic recovery tests.

So when Powerplay say the Sting is DULV certified they mean it is certified in combination with one or more particular motors. and when they say you can attach it to any motor, yes you can but it is not then necessarily DULV certified.

That is not to say that it will be a problem but be clear that the combination has not been tested and "certified" as passing! Manufacturers are scamps in this and like to spin it so you think their wing is "certified" in all applications.

The swing Arcus is the same design as the Powerplay Sting but the Sting has heavier guage lines and some extra reinforcement in the rib and line attachment webs. So is certified to higher loads than its Arcus brother.

So.....

yes powerplay risers can be retro fitted to an arcus and in 2001 I did exactly that (only the risers were swing not powerplay cos powerplay hadnt been born yet) and I flew my arcus for 250 hours on trim tab risers with and without a motor (PAP 130) and gave it a hard land eventful life. It was and still is an amazing design and very well up to the task, even thougfh strictly speaking it is not "certified" for that purpose.

If you are looking for a motor to go with the Arcus 5 and want to be flying a combination that has been tested and are keen to fly with and without a motor , take a look at the airgate mantis. The middle sized motor has a DULV cert with the Powerplay Sting so you will have a test report that will tell you how your Arcus will recover from certain "events" when flying that motor and the motor has a 8g structural load resistance certificate.

Ultimately rely on the consumers to tell you how good a wing is. I have consumed an Arcus with power risers and love it to tiny pieces.

it is now going out to pasture with Dragonphotographic who will love it to tinier ones!!!!

Edit re Swing - Powerplay

these are two companies but share design and production facilities. There is a tricky market for PPG wings particularly in Germany and the testing and certification is also tricky. So I think the company division is as much political as financial or even actual. Basically they are the same people. Hence your SwingArcus power risers are actually Powerplay sting Risers and identical to the Swing Arcus trim tab risers that have been available since 2001. I have also used these on a extra large arcus for use as a small tandem wing and this was a very successful and stable glider.

Just a note of caution ask your instructor about safe use of trim and speedbar in combination on your Arcus.

[ArcusFlyer]

Thanks Francis. I understand your points.

When, as a total newby, I said to my original hill instructor "Sell me a wing I can motor and free fly on" I thought that was an easy question to ask, at least now I know why it isn't. Hopefully I've found some kind of solution though!

Point taken about bar / trim simultaneously.

[Guest]

You know thats is EXACTLY what I said to my instructor! and he sold me an Arcus with trim risers (now called power risers) maybe not such a difficult question to answer after all?

[ArcusFlyer]

Good stuff. We'll see how the motoring goes over the coming weeks if I can ween myself off the hills (waiting for a nill wind day I guess). I've just looked at the airgate motors. Their motor range is only 9-14kg, wow. I must be missing something? (what's the catch?) their reclined harnesses look great.

[Guest]

the motor weight is 9 to 14 kg ..... heh heh

but when you attach the harness and cage its 25 kg like everyone else's!!!!!!

spin spin spin.....

but the harness is very interesting and the fuel tank is in the moulded grp harness so the weight of the fuel and tank is right against your back when on the ground so it will (Im hoping) feel lighter and be easier to ground handle.

The hang points are higher than I would like so will need to see how much weight shift roll control you get but they are on an interesting webbing geometry that I have not seen before. Most attractive to me is the PG like flying position, semi reclined and the air flow to the prop that this permits.

I am hoping to get a test flight soon so will let you know and you can test fly it too.