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Carrying a passenger?


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Hi!

First post, so be easy on me, im sure the question has been asked before, but in different ways.

I understand the law in the following way :-

Anybody can fly a paramotor with no license (training recommened).

Carrying a passenger DOES require a license?

Now, this is what confuses me... why do you need a license to carry another adult? As surely they could be the pilot just as much as you could?

Reason im asking is because somtimes people fall into medical categories which stops them obtaining microlight license to carry passengers... (i assume thats what you need?)

Im confused on the whole issue... Is it for insurance reasons you cant carry a passenger? Weight restriction?

Cheers people :)

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Hi!

First post, so be easy on me, im sure the question has been asked before, but in different ways.

I understand the law in the following way :-

Anybody can fly a paramotor with no license (training recommened).

This is correct to fly a paramotor that conforms to the single seat SPHG definition does not require a CAA license

Carrying a passenger DOES require a license?

If the machine is foot launched and complies with the CAA's SPHG definition for speed and weight then this is incorrect I believe. You do NOT need a CAA license to carry a co-pilot.

If you are conducting operations within the BHPA you do need a Dual Pilot license to fly a tandem paraglider carrying a co-pilot but at present there is no approval for tandem paramotoring in the BHPA. The BMAA required their pilots to be instructors if they carried co-pilots.

Reason im asking is because somtimes people fall into medical categories which stops them obtaining microlight license to carry passengers... (i assume thats what you need?)

A person who fails to qualify as medically sound to fly passengers under the system you describe would need to think very carefully about their desire to take responsibility for a passenger in any other circumstances also surely?

Im confused on the whole issue... Is it for insurance reasons you cant carry a passenger? Weight restriction?

Cheers people :)

There are a number of problems related to foot launched flying with passengers. One is the all-up weight and its relationship to flying speed and the ground speed.

Another is the pilot's liability to and duty of care of their passenger. It has been possible to obtain single seat SPHG third party liability insurance without proof of training or competence but this may be coming to an end. I am not sure that there has ever been tandem insurance cover for dual pilots without proof of training or competence. Whilst it is not unlawful to fly without insurance it would take a damn good lawyer to argue that duty of care had been exercised if the pilot had had no training or any recognised qualification and especially if as a result of that they were unable to obtain TP insurance.

These things are not always about what any particular law says. Best practise and "what a reasonable man would be expected to do" carry considerable weight. Dont forget we are talking about aviation here!

Actually flying an aircraft is quite easy, paramotoring particularly so. It is all that goes with "Being a Pilot" that takes the time to assimilate and laws cannot enforce this, only the willingness of participants to operate responsibly.

We work as clubs helping new pilots to understand all these issues. I hope this helps and please keep on asking the questions.

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Hi!

Thanks for your help and time!

That has made it a be clearer, and I agree you must be resonsible and make very mature and realistic decisions when it comes to safety taking a passenger etc.

So if you are a confident paramotor pilot , could you just buy a tandem style setup and take up anybody such as a friend? Obviously insurance etc is a issue. Im mainly curious on where the limitations are.

Knowing me I will be back to ask more questions! lol

Cheers!!

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Hi!

So if you are a confident paramotor pilot , could you just buy a tandem style setup and take up anybody such as a friend? Obviously insurance etc is a issue. Im mainly curious on where the limitations are.

Knowing me I will be back to ask more questions! lol

Cheers!!

All just my opinion here:-

.......confidence is not directly proportional to competence .....but even a novice can legally buy and use the equipment! (you might argue that the law ought to be tightened to protect the gullible from the over confident but most who investigate this idea soon realise it is more complex than simply owning the equipment).

A competent paramotor pilot would likely be a responsible one and would recognise that there are a number of differences between the geometry of the solo and the tandem machine. These would lead him, perhaps, to seek training in the skills needed and the forces involved in safe operation that are not present in solo flying and which he would yet have no experience of?

Also there are a number of tandem rigs out there and each has its own issues and problems associated. Tandem paramotoring is still in early development; there is no "standard" tandem set up.

PAP produce a rig but I do not like it for a number of reasons. There are others but I have chosen to develop my own to fit with the parajet range of motors and which utilises their swinging arm geometry more effectively. Other motors need to be matched with their own tandem rigs and many pilots develop their rig own based on their experience as paramotor pilots and as tandem paraglider pilots.

Mike Campbell-Jones has developed a tandem rig and this has been copied by a number of others including AV8R. This system is more complex involving the redistribution of the pilot weights after take off. I looked at this one long and hard before rejecting it as a model and developed my own.

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I'll take a wild guess that the guy who posted the question has not actually flown a paramotor ... not that it wasn't a good question. but I think anyone who had done half a dozen flights on a paramotor would soon reallise the idea of taking a passenger was fairly optimistic. even for a skilled pilot

I cant imagine you'd be ready to take passenger until you had a hundred hours or so under your belt, or perhaps more importantly, 100+ take off / landing cycles, and even then you'd reallise the problem was not the legal side but the sheer physics of the thing and the complexity of managing the equipment and a passenger ... legally, it is no doubt possible to solve it .. but the practicalities of it would demand a very competent and experienced pilot, probably with a competent passenger also. You dont even want to be thinking about asking the question until you have number of takeoffs well into 3 figures.

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Ok cheers for the info guys! :)

No you are right ive never been near one! The idea just appealed to me and I wasnt really sure at all what was involved.

I've read a few FAQ's and they didn't quite answer my questions.

I assume you do not need to pass any medical? Or do you need to pass a medical/get doctors note for *proper* training?

Don't worry im not irresponsible, I understand that flying is not somthing you want to mess about with until you fully understand all likely situations and how to deal with them.

Thanks again people!

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You do not need a medical in this country to fly a paramotor but you do in Ireland. even though you dont need one you can still have a class 2 aero-medical examination in order to satisfy yourself that you are fit to fly especially if you want to take up passengers.

It is a great way to fly and very cheap. The initial training takes 8 to 12 days depending on aptitude etc. and can cost around a thousand pounds.

the equipment costs around five thousand if you buy new and lasts a few years before needing to be replaced. It is the cheapest and least regulated form of powered flight and is seeing an exponential growth in popularity this year.

You can usually get a "taster" day at a paramotoring school and see what is involved before commiting large sums. That is what most new pilots start with I think.

Look forward to seeing you around :D:D:D:D

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Ok cheers for the info guys! :)

No you are right ive never been near one! The idea just appealed to me and I wasnt really sure at all what was involved.

Oh, it is fun I assure you :) as I said, I am sure you could sort out the legal side, but the practical side might be somewhat more challenging. I know there are tandem trikes around, but basically you are back into microlight rules there anyway. I good route into it might be via the tandem paraglider experience. If you and your ontended passenger could master a tandem paraglider ride or ten, then tandem paramotor might not be too distant a goal.

You could always try solo then tandem paraglider , and move on to paramotors and then work up to a tandem paramotor ... probably the sanest route.

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