Steve Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 My alarm bells are still going off ... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Duffy Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 15 hours ago, Steve said: My alarm bells are still going off ... Mine too, now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 Many have fallen for the Dell patter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 There's a simple solution to all of this. And I encourage all new and wannabe pilots to adopt this stance. If Dell Schanze, Flat Top, Dominator, U-Turn or WPPGA are catching your interest, then just move on. No good will come from it and you will at best waste some time reading/listening, or at worst waste your money and time. Don't even get into debates - you don't know who you're dealing with a lot of the time as Dell has many pseudonyms and a little army of evangelists. It's all very bizarre. He's been poisoning the PPG community for more years than I can remember, certainly I remember reading his stuff 12 years ago and he's as poisonous now as he was then. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamjedgar Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 (edited) On 09/10/2020 at 07:45, Bob27 said: I agree with you. I do believe the dominator is a good EN-A wing but there is no way it could keep up with most comparable sized reflex wings especially in long distance xc flights. I have talked to Dell a few times and he is honestly one of the most fun person I have ever talked with. I have also learned that he truly believes every word that he says. Now with that In mind, I don't think he fully understands every concept behind how a reflex works which I think has made him more more apposed to it, but he has flown dozens of reflex wings him self. I found this interesting interview that someone not affiliated with him did. I don't think it will make you change your mind on everything he has ever said, but it shows a slightly different side of him and it helps show people who have never met him that he does believe what he says. It is interesting listening to around the 40ish minute mark when he talks about his own gear and other gear. It goes to show that he is not as against reflex as many of his videos demonstrate and he isn't really apposed to people flying wings other than his own dominator. On a different topic I have had this on my mind for a bit so here is my little rant on a theoretically possible paramotor wing that could possibly be better than reflex: I once saw a wing where you could zip up or fold up the two center cells of the wing while on the ground to effectively take it from something like a large to a medium size. Its called the U-turn paramotion if anyone wants to look it up. With that in mind, I think that someone needs to take a non-reflex wing and design the center third of the cells to collapse in an accordion style while in flight. this would effectively cut the wing area in nearly half and reduce the aspect ratio from around 5:1 down to around 3.3:1. Theoretically if you could do this properly, you could keep up with any comparable size reflex wing, out climb with ease any wing in reflex mode, maintain active piloting at all speeds, be able to use regular brakes for better control, and the wing would recover from collapses almost as fast, but far more gently preventing other problems. Also because you are not loosing the efficiency of a reflex airfoil, it would be appealing to paraglider pilots. Of course the technical challenges would make this extremally difficult, but It would be really cool. All good points Bob...i personally dont view you as a Super Dell plant. However even if you were, i personally take everything i read on its merits as best i can. Some things Dells preaches i agree with, other stuff....if i say what i think it would be a lot of foul language ranting! One thing i will say about the Cima K2 wing...if a "newbie" was to make a mistake in making a wing purchase, it sure is better to make that mistake than go out and buy an apco NRG, Niviuk Doberman, Dudek Hadron, a Snake or the like where they will surely come to grief! There is also no doubt about the strength of the flat top, there is no way i would put my ppg between two supports and stand on it whilst bouncing up and down! Btw, i dissagree to some extent about the crumple zone. Most ppg accidents ive seen have the unit landing tilted forward. This would for the most part bypass the crumple zone because of the angle of impact. That in turn would cause that single support tube to just immediately bend or even snap off! I and i am not even convinced Dells version of comfort bars provides any real protection either...the way they are designed doesnt look to me they would distribute impact forces very well in a crash. When you consider the flat top is heavier than most other modern units (mostly due to supposed safety features), is anything actually being gained by these faulty apparent safety features? I think this is where the skytap does the flat top justice. A much better design. Personally i would never buy a flat top. Anyway, why would i? Dell earbashed Nirvana and i love my Nirvana...hes the devil Edited October 12, 2020 by adamjedgar 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob27 Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 I can totally respect what you have said. I may have a slightly different view on crumple zones because of all the people I have spoken with who have personally used them in paragliding and paramotor accidents, but at the same time I agree with you that they don't work in all situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumble56 Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 10 hours ago, Bob27 said: I can totally respect what you have said. I may have a slightly different view on crumple zones because of all the people I have spoken with who have personally used them in paragliding and paramotor accidents, but at the same time I agree with you that they don't work in all situations. Paragliding crumple zone ? Or are you referring to an airbag ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob27 Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien4788 Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 some things aren't right here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob27 Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 sorry, air bag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumble56 Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 A friend of mine (a mechnical/hydraulics engineer) saw one Dells videos and looked at the Flat Top design. His conclusion was that it looked dangerous unless you came down vertically, too much risk of one of the tubes breaking free and puncturing the thigh. Of course this was purely his observation from the video but I would love to get the frame properly stress tested to see how true the claims about this type of frame are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cas_whitmore Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 Your gonna cop it now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob27 Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 (edited) 21 minutes ago, grumble56 said: A friend of mine (a mechnical/hydraulics engineer) saw one Dells videos and looked at the Flat Top design. His conclusion was that it looked dangerous unless you came down vertically, too much risk of one of the tubes breaking free and puncturing the thigh. Of course this was purely his observation from the video but I would love to get the frame properly stress tested to see how true the claims about this type of frame are. On the other hand a good friend of mine has an AMP license and is a civil engineer. I believe he loves the flat top design more than anyone else. I would love to see test results published along with dummy crash testing. Edited October 13, 2020 by Bob27 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumble56 Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 I have no idea what an AMP license is !! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob27 Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 (edited) Sorry, A&P license. Or Airfame and powerplant license. It basically means that he is a certified airplane and helicopter mechanic. Edited October 14, 2020 by Bob27 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 That last reply shows how little you know. A mechanic is trained to do tasks in a prescribed manner. They have no training in engineering - which is the applied science of acquiring and applying knowledge to design, analysis and/or construction of works for practical purposes. Hence a mechanic does not have the skills to make any analysis on whether a structure is designed well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob27 Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 5 hours ago, AndyB said: A mechanic is trained to do tasks in a prescribed manner. They have no training in engineering - which is the applied science of acquiring and applying knowledge to design, analysis and/or construction of works for practical purposes. Is may be true for a standard car mechanic, but I believe it would be far less true for an aircraft mechanics as they often must repair things rather than replacing them. For example if a wing rib is damaged he would most likely fix it but in doing so he must fully understand the structural loads and take this into account with how he would repair and reinforce the wing rib. Also due to the diversity in construction methods and design almost no repair would be the same. He may not have the skills or knowledge of designing an airplane but he has a pretty darn good idea of the strength of materials and what a properly designed structure looks like. He is also a civil engineer. He basically specializes in knowing how strong materials are and and how they will react under loads. Is this really any worse than a hydraulics engineer for analyzing how a solid metal structure will crumple? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 I'm getting double alarm bells now - good job I like stereo. Apart from the Dell syndrome, does anyone remember that idiot we had on here a few months ago pretending to be an airline pilot along with the associated fantasy stories he spun. I feel the two merging into one new character ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 2 hours ago, Bob27 said: Is may be true for a standard car mechanic, but I believe it would be far less true for an aircraft mechanics as they often must repair things rather than replacing them. For example if a wing rib is damaged he would most likely fix it but in doing so he must fully understand the structural loads and take this into account with how he would repair and reinforce the wing rib. Now you really worry me as you clearly do not understand engineering. An aircraft mechanic can ONLY fix things in a totally prescribed way. In particular aircraft mechanics are NOT allowed to do anything other than as prescribed by the manuals. One of the Discovery channel "seconds from disaster" follows an aircraft not repaired as per the manual....and it killed everyone on board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamjedgar Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 (edited) The aircraft industry term mechanic is a very awkward way of describing the specialist areas involved in aircraft maintenance and repair. The type of work carried out as alluded too in the above posts are not completed by a single person...They are unique skills in specialist workshops. Even when one looks at the automotive industry, a diesel mechanic does not undertake panel beating, an auto electrician does not fix gearboxes and diffs! Here in our country, the usual thing is for licensed specialist workshops to undertake these specialist roles...you don't, for example, usually see a newly refurbished propellor come out of a standard maintenance hanger! I know this because my dad was formerly both a LAME and diesel mechanic by trade. Edited October 14, 2020 by adamjedgar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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