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The wing registration conversation again.


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All,

I would like to start a conversation about paramotor wing registration and your thoughts on the pros and cons of such.

I do have personal feelings about this subject but would like thoughts from others as well.

If you were told you HAD to have a wing registration as a part of the aviation norm, how would you react?

Can you see any benefits to wing registration?

What would annoy you about it?

And so on...

I ask, because I am interested... no other reason. :-)

SW :D

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I would be a bit pi**ed off! but I would absolutely go ahead and do it to be able to keep flying.

I would worry that registration was the thin end of the wedge to further regulation.

I wouldn't like the cost, either the fee, if there was one, or the cost of having the number put on.

I can see the benefit in making mavericks inclined to break the rules, being made to think twice if they think they might be recognised.

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If i wanted numbers on a wing,i would get a microlight.look what happened with them.they became far to dear to buy and run.i think the only people who want wings with reg,are those who would profit from it,if ppg went the same way you might as well just fly a microlight,what would come next mandory reg/insurance yearly fees,transponders,before you know it another sport for the rich..keep ppg as it is,,

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I go flying to get away from things like bureaucracy.

A few times people have spotted me flying and tried to follow me but they never find where I go (so they tell me days later). Paramotors don't usually use known air fields.

Assuming we ignored the registration requirements and flew blank wings (or better still wings with fake numbers) the Bureaucracy Police would need a fleet of helicopters constantly in the air to catch us.

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Would welcome wing registration- as long as costs were not crazy.

Anything to discourage people from flying irresponsibly or illegally- at risk to general public/public areas,etc...

At least if there is someone acting the maggot in your doorstep, you have some evidence (to an extent) that it was not you.

On the otherhand- you can't make people register or display a number, so unless everyone does- is there a point?

Even if registration became legislation, enforcement would be very difficult, if not impossible.

GD

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I have a wing registration number as I fly a quad, its no biggy, costs are minimal.

I fly sensibly and cannot be blamed for what other pilots do because if it was me then they would have my number.

If there were advantages to having wing reg numbers then I dont see much of a problem myself

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I fly in France where wing registration is mandatory. It's a bit of a non-issue, it's neither expensive, nor complicated and if it stops me being blamed for another's foolishness, then that's great.

..........but any creeping bureaucracy is best resisted.

Christian

I wouldn't have an issue if it was done same way as France then.

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I won't stop people doing stupid things or braking laws. The driving licence/mot and road tax doesn't stop idiots driving like idiots or driving without any of the above.

Granted it may stop you being blamed provided anyone complaining can say the wing had no numbers. But from experience witnesses don't always pick up on that. You'll get " it was a big blue wing".

What it will do is cost money!

Maybe not a lot but it's there.

Me I'll do whatever the law tells me to do to keep flying.

But I can't see it solving anything.

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I don't have a problem with the concept of wing registration.

I don't see it as a benefit on its own.

Those who fly irresponsibly would be less likely to register their wings and an unregistered wing (and its pilot) would be just as difficult to trace.

For registration to be effectively enforced, lettering would have to be applied to the wing in a permanent manner before delivery to the first owner. This would be likely to raise cost.

The cost of administering the database would presumably be met through registration / renewal / transfer fees.

I am less concerned about creeping regulation in this instance. The CAA appear to be moving in the direction of less regulation rather than more, particularly at the 'light' end of aviation.

Possibly a greater concern is the risk that the whole sport could be banned if it is percieved that it cannot be effectively regulated (either self regulated or by imposition of authority).

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  • 2 weeks later...

We had this discussion at the field the other day. I've watched this whole argument play out, albeit in a slightly different field, in various places and the fact is, only the law abiding will bother to register. In a market where nobody actually knows how many wings and motors are out there, if registration is made compulsory, those who are likely to keep to the law will register, while those who don't will not. That negates any possible usefulness of the registration.

Granted, there may be some pressure, if the people choose to fly from clubs and sites that insist on registered kit, but again, that kind of flyer is less likely to offend.

As a defence for the lawful, it's sadly a non starter. People don't notice car registration numbers, and they know about those, so what is the chance of an uninitiated person knowing that each wing has a unique number? What is the chance that they will remember that a wing has a number (or doesn't)? Pretty slim is the answer. As said above, they'll remember "he had a big blue and white parachute" (and if they get the colours right they're doing well!)

The potential downside is the additional cost of issuing registrations and administering the database. There WILL be a cost, and the pilot will have to meet it. Anyone who's dealt with the CAA in any capacity, including schemes that are devolved to other groups, will know that anything they have a hand in is overly bureaucratic and expensive.

Once you have registration of wings, what's to stop imposition of further regulation? You need a licence to fly. You need a medical. You need insurance. The cost and the administrative burden adds up, and it WILL prevent people from taking up the sport, and drive people away.

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I agree with you matt, but after some thought after our conversation, is it all about those who don't bother to register? If the powers that be offer wing registration like you say the reckless may not bother to register but for the decent folk who do the reflection of the sport in the outside world may be a bit more positive. Even if it's Mr farmer please can I use your field I have a pmc rating and my wing is registered , registration no... It may just give the sport a more positive image to those less in the know??

Sam

Sent from my sofa whilst wishing I was flying

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I can see your point with regards to looking more responsible.

However does this sport even have an image outside those who actually practice it?

I have yet to meet someone who actually knows what paramotoring is.

Usually when I mention what I've been up to I have to explain what a paramotor is and what it entails. Most people are completely unaware that the sport exists and no formal qualification exists.

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I agree with Ganers - Who knows what paramotoring is, I've heard it called hang gliding, parascending, paragliding and micro lighting but nobody I've met outside of our tiny world has ever known what it was or anything about it, so its 'image' is mostly non-existent.

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We sure have an image with the rest of the aviation community and it's usually bad in my experience.

I have registered and unregistered wings and I do fly differently with a registration to a certain extent. Because we fly from so many non-airfield locations and because our machines are slow and we tend to fly low we will attract reports and complaints even without breaking any rules.

Use the App.

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