Anyone done any longer navigation exercises recently?

[norman2]

I'm trying to get a sense of how often people are leaving the local area and flying across country.

• If you are, what altitudes/heights are you using during transit?
  Do you land-away, or return to your departure place without landing?

Answers on a post(card) gents (and ladies).

[Guest]

Guys, PLEASE reply to this...

This would be a massive help for the Navigation section in our manual system, I know that a few of you have been flying XC lately so please do share, it will benefit all future pilots.

Its not a competition and would be great for us to know what it relevant to the majority of pilots in the UK. If you don't fly XC please also make it known.

Norman has been on the scene for 5 years writing the training systems for us (and now a book to go with it) This information will help that content to be accurate to the needs of the average pilot.

Many thanks in advance.

SW

[Steve]

I do 50/50 local XC but prefer XC if the conditions are good. My most recent XC was a 120km triangle (isn) landing back at take-off field. All was sub-2000 feet as are most of my XCs. Landing out is great too but wastes too much pre planning sometimes with fickle weather.

[Guest]

That's exactly the sort of thing we are looking for mate, THANKS!

Now the ball is rolling... who's next?

SW

[rsquared]

I am also keen to follow this thread and would like to hear reviews of methods used....

...do some still prefer the paper map in the lap, or has technology completely made the paper map a dinosaur?

If so, do you just use apps on your smart phone or prefer dedicated devices that integrate gps, vario and airspace maps.....and which ones are preferred.

Cheers.

[Hann__]

What`s the minimum distance you`d consider a flight to be worthy of being an XC?

Nearly all my flights are ~2 hours and ~55 miles consisting of out`n`backs or triangular routes.

Are they XC?

[Guest]

Yes I suppose an Xc is anything that involves being out of site of the airfield ish.... Good question

SW

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[PatPux]

What`s the minimum distance you`d consider a flight to be worthy of being an XC?

Nearly all my flights are ~2 hours and ~55 miles consisting of out`n`backs or triangular routes.

Are they XC?

Well, if those aren't considered XC then my flights would never be considered! At my rate of fuel burn 6+lts/hr, I'd never get a 2hr flight time, unless flying an out downwind.

As a low hours pilot (25 flights) . I have flown from Membury to home (30miles) twice, and undertaken 3 or 4 triangular flights from Membury. Up to around 1hour flight time. No land outs and take offs , yet

In my mind I consider an XC as any flight where I plan a specific destination or series of waypoints. ( rather than a bimble around the sky with no specific intent) I use a Garmin 60csx backed up by a paper print from a mapping package I use RunwayHD

http://www.airboxaero.co.uk/runwayhd/4581846996 ,

for flight planning.

[Hann__]

I have a small wrist-mounted Garmin 401 Foretrex which i use to navigate (small basic screen, no maps) by loading waypoints and planning routes (co-ords gathered from Google maps etc) and from which i load the saved track into Google maps after the flight to analyse my route and flight data etc;

[Farmer_Dave]

Hands up. For years, I've only ever taken a vario up so I know how fast I'm going up (or down) My weakest subject is navigation. I only ever fly Devon and do it all from memory, so am watching this thread with interest. Have got the Garmin 96c out of the box and given it new batteries. Will be buying a flight deck so I can get the reserve out of the engines airflow and the Garmin and Vario will then come up every time.

I do xc a bit. 60 miles ish. Land out on Exmoor at my cousins. Fly across at 2000 feet AGL. Quiet there. And a great view. Cooler too, when hot on the ground. Above police, ambulance, and leissure craft but below Flybe into Exeter

Dave

[Norman3]

Hi Dave,

You may remember some time ago now I posted a link to a PDF download, a basic Pilot Navigation primer I wrote framed around low speed flight à la Paramotor. I believe it was quite well received, certainly I had some positive feedback from a couple of sources, several from the hang-glider community.

I would be grateful for a little feedback, what are the concerns people feel, where do you feel deficient with respect o knowledge or skills. Do you have any sense of what you would like to know?

I am re-writing the piece and will bring it here in one form or another for use.

I hope you are safe and well down there in Devon Dave.

Sent from my iPad using PMC Forum mobile app

[outkast]

my last XC, about one and a half hours, circular, no land out, roughly 800ft all the way

[Guest]

Hi Dave,

You may remember some time ago now I posted a link to a PDF download, a basic Pilot Navigation primer I wrote framed around low speed flight à la Paramotor. I believe it was quite well received, certainly I had some positive feedback from a couple of sources, several from the hang-glider community.

I would be grateful for a little feedback, what are the concerns people feel, where do you feel deficient with respect o knowledge or skills. Do you have any sense of what you would like to know?

I am re-writing the piece and will bring it here in one form or another for use.

I hope you are safe and well down there in Devon Dave.

Sent from my iPad using PMC Forum mobile app

Link is at the top of the page Click the Navigation tab and there you will find the PDF

SW

[Farmer_Dave]

Thanks for navigating me to the pdf Simon. Nice to hear from you Norman. I read some of that and scanned quickly through the rest. Well written I'd say. If it was about acro I'd have read the lot. I seldom fly further than I can see (30 miles out) then 30 miles across and 30 miles back is about my max. Took on a bit of fuel on Exmoor. Then I know I live south so I look for the Exe estuary (left of Dartmoor) and go for it til I recognise somewhere. Lazy I know. I need a push. But I am enjoying getting my wingovers higher and sticking the spirals for a bit longer. Definately feel a SAT coming but might leave the Heli alone for a bit. Defo won't catch me tumbling either !

Back to topic. If you are making changes, keep it simple (for people like me) and maybe shorten the history, although it's interesting to most, even me, some might want the shortest route (no pun) to achieving their objective.

ps. If you're down my way for a bit of XC......I'll follow you Norm

Regards

Dave

[Norman3]

Dave et al,

Thanks for the feedback, it really helps. The re-write will correct some grammar as well as alter the structure a little.

What qualifies as a X/Country?

Anything that takes you out of the circuit into your local flying area might be described as a X/Country. Is that a navigation exercise: to a point, yes? You are using familiar landmarks and comparing them to a map: in your head, on paper or within a screen.

Either way, if the activity doesn't involve the calculation of a course, allowance for wind and flight across the shortest distance between waypoints, it's hardly an exercise in precise pilot navigation. One isn't 'good' and the other 'bad': each has their value as a flying skill. Fair?

What interests me is how PPG1/2 pilots gain a rounded understanding of the elements and their effects on flight. We want those being trained with us to gain meaningful pilot navigation skills that do not rely on electronic aids.

I don't offer this as a form of dogma, more a desire to embed a strong knowledge and skill foundation that will support safer and more accomplished use of aids like GPS. Get caught between the two and confusion tends to reign.