morgy Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Hi I have been sent this email. It is true that money can be taken for giving instruction and that a tandem flight can be a flight in which instruction is given BUT the bit he has missed and may not know is that it is an exemption from requiring a commercial pilot's license or a CAA instructor licence ONLY for gliders (PPG are gliders) when the aircraft belongs to a flying club and the person giving instruction and the person receiving the instruction are both members of that club. So simply giving your passenger instruction in the flight is not enough they need to be club members, so does the pilot and the machine must be a club machine. The AXA insurance he has contains a clause that your flight must comply with the law of the country. So if the passenger and pilot are not members of a flying club and/or the machine is not a club machine the flight is both illegal and uninsured. The PMC is not a club under the law as it has no constitution or articles of association and no membership. Simon may operate a club at his training school but I suspect it is more likely to be a business under the law rather than a club. I do not think Simon or any other tandem operator or paramotor trainer (outside BHPA) understands this or cares. Is Pete's Tandem Set owned by the PMC??? So you may say PMC is a club with members BUT it is not affiliated with any ORG like BHPA BMAA CAA Or any controlling NAC. Like i said i Don't think a good barrister would have any trouble winning his case against The Tandem pilot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Thanks for passing that on, from whoever it was. I will of course not reply as you will end up passing messages over from this mystery 3rd party person. Thanks for his / her concern. Needless to say, I have checked out what we are doing with people who actually know. I have made the decision to do it. Feel free to sit aside and watch. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 O go on then, I will bite (in the interest of clarity) Here is the UK 'LEGAL' definition of a club. Just in case you though the Paramotor Club.org was NOT a club. Club An organization composed of people who voluntarily meet on a regular basis for a mutual purpose other than educational, religious, charitable, or financial pursuits. A club is any kind of group that has members who meet for a social, literary, or political purpose, such as health clubs, country clubs, book clubs, and women's associations. The term club is not a legal term per se, but a group that organizes itself as a club must comply with any laws governing its organization and otherwise be cognizant of the legal ramifications in undertaking to organize itself in this manner. Various types of clubs exist. An incorporated members' club is composed of a group of individuals who each contribute to the club's funds, which are used to pay the expenses of conducting the society. An unincorporated proprietary club is one whose proprietor owns the property and funds and conducts the club to attempt to make a profit. The members are entitled to use the premises and property in exchange for the payment of entrance fees and subscriptions to the proprietor as well as any additional rights and privileges provided in their contractual agreement. Voluntary clubs are not partnerships, since the members do not join them for profit-making purposes and, unlike partners, are not responsible for the acts of each other. If a club's members do unite for a commercial venture, however, this association would constitute a partnership. In such cases, a club might be required to comply with the law. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_b Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 I wonder who sent that e-mail!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outkast Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Hi I have been sent this email. It is true that money can be taken for giving instruction and that a tandem flight can be a flight in which instruction is given BUT the bit he has missed and may not know is that it is an exemption from requiring a commercial pilot's license or a CAA instructor licence ONLY for gliders (PPG are gliders) when the aircraft belongs to a flying club and the person giving instruction and the person receiving the instruction are both members of that club. So simply giving your passenger instruction in the flight is not enough they need to be club members, so does the pilot and the machine must be a club machine. The AXA insurance he has contains a clause that your flight must comply with the law of the country. So if the passenger and pilot are not members of a flying club and/or the machine is not a club machine the flight is both illegal and uninsured. The PMC is not a club under the law as it has no constitution or articles of association and no membership. Simon may operate a club at his training school but I suspect it is more likely to be a business under the law rather than a club. I do not think Simon or any other tandem operator or paramotor trainer (outside BHPA) understands this or cares. Is Pete's Tandem Set owned by the PMC??? So you may say PMC is a club with members BUT it is not affiliated with any ORG like BHPA BMAA CAA Or any controlling NAC. Like i said i Don't think a good barrister would have any trouble winning his case against The Tandem pilot. Francis, is that you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgy Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Just carry on guy's I really hope you don't have to rely on the insurance one day.. Or you get someone who likes No Win No Fee... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 It p*sse* me off that UK business owners are scared of NWNF Lawyers!!! Grow some! Stay inside the law, and when they call tell them to F off! The Law is the Law, NWNF Lawyers do not make the law, (they make up the law) £60 with any half decent Lawyer will burry a NWNF in most cases. They are business terrorists IMO. Lets let the NWNF Lawyers tell us what we can and cant do Is that your option? But I don't blame you for being the same as the majority... Its how the UK is now. (or so most are led to believe) SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinereus Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 Can anyone actually cite and quote all pertinent legislation so we can work out for ourselves whatever legal risk there is in a common law jurisdiction? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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