Zenith frame & torque effect

[aljken]

Hi all,

I've recently started paramotoring and was learning on a PAP frame with a Polini 100. I weigh 70kg, so my all up weight is maybe 110kg although that's just an estimate.

I was incredibly disappointed with the torque effect that was going on with this frame. Every time I applied power I was pulled over to the left and in the end had to content myself with just going with the torque and spiralling upwards and to the left before just going on a glide. In fact it was almost impossible to fly straight despite weight shifting with anything more than 25% power.

I got the frame hung up and and the hang points fully adjusted correctly. I did find it very difficult to get in the seat too - maybe as it was on the lightest setting?!

Anyway, my questions are:

Is this just the reality of paramotoring? Do you just have to live with the torque, as it seemed pretty bloody irritating. Or is this the frame?

I'm thinking of getting a Zenith with a Polini 130.

Will the Zenith frame be any better?

Would a Polini 130 be too powerful for me and torque me over even further?

I'd appreciate any honest opinions and advice.

Cheers,

Alex.

[skybound]

No doubt Alex you've had lots of PMs suggesting you come and try their kit.

Trouble is Alex, true low hangpoints don't manage power well. The current wave of midpoints deal with the problem better than low but still have issues if not set up well.

It's a question of using the pilot mass well, as this is the one constant in the flight envelope. Hence the reason we don't make a low hangpoint.

[Guest]

Hi Clive,

Are you aware that Pete B has very successfully converted a bulldog into low hang point swing arms

Test flown the other day and flew perfectly :-)

I am sure he will let you have a go if you are interested for the sake of having a go....

SW

[morgy]

Hi Alex

I am 73kg and fly a zenith moster with 1.3m prop loads of power ... I also have a V5 Bailey if you wish to come and do some demo flights your more than welcome...

Demo kit available GTR20m GTX22m Speedster 24m/28m Zenith moster zenith V5 Bailey V5.

regards

Mark

www.sussexparamotors.co.uk

[notch]

I have a PAP 125. I only notice a very slight turn with both no throttle and full throttle. Its easily countered by a bit of brake or weightshift.

I have my PAP hang-point set-up with around 5 degrees of tilt back.

Do you have yours leaning back? Ignore the weight ranges for the holes in the arm. The actual tilt angle is more important.

I weigh 100kg though, and have a 33m wing, perhaps because I have eaten too many pies it's different for me!

[nigel_d.]

Ok, has anyone considered that it might have the wrong offset on the swing arms for the prop direction?

Nige

[custom-vince]

I've flown low, mid and high hang points. All of which eliminate torque fairly well, so long as they are setup correctly.

Need to check your harness straps are all even and correct settings. Angle of dangle is important. More upright = less torque turn. Find your local club or school and ask for some help.

[pauldeakin]

I have a low hangpoint, and a mid\high hangpoint and the torque is hardly noticeable on both, they are equally good, I only notice a small amount of turn when on full revs, the low hangpoint has the advantage that weightshifting to counter it is more effective. However I do notice that some wings are effected much more by a bit of torque, especially low aspect ratio, slow wings with only 3 risers.

[aljken]

Thanks for the advice guys. I'm gonna go try the Zenith frame and see what happens, see if I'm pulled over to the left!

I do have another question though.

Is the torque effect reduced or enhanced by having a smaller wing? ie. does the wing loading affect it?

Cheers,

Alex.

[nigel_d.]

I downsized my Nucleon and noticed more torque steer on my mid hang pointed V5. What I said earlier about your Pap arms is that they make them for left or right torque compensation so if they happen to be wrong then a lot of torque steer is likely.

Nige