Jacoolw Posted February 13, 2013 Author Share Posted February 13, 2013 Hi I had two flights since where I could not get it started from cold while on my back. So I'm still having problems when starting it hot or cold. Rob, you said you also have a problem where the starter chord gets ripped back when the engine fires? (this happened since new) Could this not be the pull starter assembly? The chord on my motor is also wearing out. Morgy, Parajet told me none of their other customers with Bailey/Zenith have problems starting. (When I had my traing the other student had a Zenith/Polini and it started first pull every time, using one hand) cheers, Jaco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skybluerob Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Morgy My V5 has been like this from new. The sales person that sold it me must have known it was a difficult starter and the people in the factory must have known. Either that or they only started it when cold (as I've said it starts quite easily when cold). I don't want to drive down south and back and perhaps BnB for days. This would be false economy. I was a helicopter tech in the Army and have years of experience. Replacing a carb is a doddle but of course the tuning of the engine is something else. I'm certain Paul Bailey knows there are issues but isn't interested once the units have left the factory. If they know there's an issue with the certain carbs, they should ship out the correct carb. Bailey should pay for the posting, insurance parts and labour to solve this problem. The more I think about it the more agitated I get. Thanks though Morgy Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacoolw Posted February 13, 2013 Author Share Posted February 13, 2013 Hi Rob What is your engine number? If it is 150 or above it should have the new carb. Mine is 504. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skybluerob Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 (edited) Jaco I work away during the week...I'll take a look when I'm home...Thanks Obviously, I will keep you informed of any progress. I will contact Bailey and see what they say...I'll let them know that whatever they say/do it will be posted on this forum. I have spoken to Bailey before and wasn't happy with the outcome. I will be pleasantly surprised if I make positive progress after talking to them on this topic. Rob Edited February 14, 2013 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgy Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 If the pull start is wearing out... This means the set up is not correct!!!! pulling to one side IE its rubbing on something!!! The Pull start being ripped out your hand as you say... IMO will be a small Back fire. This will be down to the carb or incorrect starting. Rob How can traveling to get it fixed be a false economy. I am certain Bailey will not just ship out the parts for you to fit.. I have over 150 hours on V5's and my pull cord is like new a Little dirty but not worn at all... I switch on and of all the time in the air... You guy's Obviously know best so i will now rest my fingers trying to help. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgy Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Jacoolw that must be a typo engine number 150?? I have never had an engine number less than 350.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacoolw Posted February 14, 2013 Author Share Posted February 14, 2013 yes, I'm wrong, I mis read the mail from Paul Bailey: "The first 40 or so V5 engines were fitted with our MK1 decompressor, this was redesigned (MK2) and has been fitted to all engines since (about 150 engines) The problem reported was with a MK1 system not the one fitted to your engine. " Morgy, I did follow all your advice, and it did help. (I know nothing about paramotor engines ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacoolw Posted February 14, 2013 Author Share Posted February 14, 2013 Hi Rob I found Bailey very helpful, I think if I was in the UK and could get the motor to Bailey or a dealer the problem would have been identified and fixed long ago. I'll definitely buy the v6 with the voice command start when it comes out. cheers, Jaco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skybluerob Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Jaco Just come off the phone with Bruce from Bailey, helpful bloke. Our problems aren't unique. They have a policy whereby they will sell you a CVK carb (which comes with a new inlet manifold) at a reduced price of £100. I will do just that but will first check the valve clearances as suggested by Bruce. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skybluerob Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Jaco Oh man...I am soooo extatic. The V5 starts every time BEFORE the end of the pull..!!! When I took the rocker cover off and rattled the valves on the lowest part of the cam lobe, it was obvious the exhaust valve clearance was way too much. I adjusted it (.004 inch), cover on and breather pipe and the V5 started first attempt and non of that compression lock. The easy start system is integrated into the exhaust valve and it is imperitive that the gap is correct. I have spent 15 joyous minutes just starting and stopping the engine... Jaco...Just look at your clearances.....5 minute job..!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skybluerob Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Anyone reading this post.... IF YOU BUY A BRAND NEW v5 AND HAVING PROBLEMS STARTING IT.... SYMPTOMS: COMPRESSION LOCK, POPPING, KICKING BACK WHEN PULL STARTING, DO NOT ASSUME THAT THE VALVE CLEARANCES WERE CORRECTLY ADJUSTED IN THE BAILEY FACTORY AND DISCOUNT THAT AS BEING THE PROBLEM. The easy start system involves a mechanism that only slightly pushes the exhaust valve down and reduces the comression in the cylinder during starting. If the exhaust valve clearance is too much then the easy start mechanism effect is reduced or not at all. I'm so happy that my V5 is all good now and at no cost...!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacoolw Posted February 15, 2013 Author Share Posted February 15, 2013 I'm happy for you, Rob I just checked my clearances again and it is 0.10mm as required. I think I'll get a bike mechanic to check mine in case I'm doing something wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgy Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 WOW You obviously did not read the Posts before... Valve clearance was suggested to Jacoolw in some of the very first posts CVK upgrade is +VAT £120 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Morgy, Your customer (or not) service is admirable. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skybluerob Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Jaco I flew today and started/stopped the engine many times. I'm a very happy person but this doesn't help you. Yes, that's agood idea, using a motorcycle mechanicalthough I'm sure others would disagree. If you are still haveing the same symptoms with the correct valve clearance then my engineering head tells me that the easy start mechanism isn't pushing the exhaust valve down enough to allow the release of pressure in the cylinder. I don't mean to insult you but are you sure that the cam is at its lowest point when you measure the gap? I would try reducing the exhaust valve gap even further just as an experiment. Not too much that the valve hits the piston head though!!!!......Just a little.. My last comment will probably cause one or two people to ridicule my suggestion.....Let's see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dariuszk24 Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Hi Jaco ,I think Skybluerob has right ,your exhaust valve has to small gap , every 4 stroke engine has min 0.1-0.15mm for inlet valve min 0.15-0.25mm for outlet valve(must be more because outlet is heating two times more then inlet) never inlet and outlet has the same clearance you have to know where is inlet and where is outlet and how to right check that this is very crucial because when engine is could and your valve clearance is just (mean very small gaps) engine start nicely, but when you kill the engine,and try start again will be problem,because valve rods under heat is expanded(extended,valve clearance is 0 ) and some valve is little open,no good compression-no start,but when engine cold down it start again nicely,(this explain your problem and SkyBluerob give you clue you can set outlet valve to 0.15mm and see what's happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skybluerob Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Hello Darius The Bailey online manual (you can see for yourself of course) says 0.004 in for both exhaust and inlet valve clearances. The top being inlet and bottom exhaust. The V5 exhaust valve isn't a regular set-up. The easy start system pushes the exhaust valve down a very small amount when you pull the starter. In Jaco's case (Jaco has the same symptoms as I had before I adjusted the exhaust valve) the easy start mechanism isn't pushing the exhaust valve down enough, .....compression is too high etc. I suggested making the gap smaller or making it absolutely certain that the cam lobe was at its lowest. Ta Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgy Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Jacoolw Please only take technical advice from some one who knows this engine inside and out (Bailey) Always refer to the Manual for Tech Spec's on the engine... Rob is correct 0.004 for both inlet and exhaust.... Darius is Wrong about the Bailey V5 Rob ... Glad you now have your's sorted.. Jacoolw has checked the Valve clearance... But would be worth getting someone with more mechanical knowledge to check the clearance AGAIN... I still think it has something to do with the Starting or the way Jacools is doing it... (nothing personal) As you were not shown by your Dealer.. Would you be able to Make a little Video. Just to show me how your getting to your feet with the motor on you back... Starting from cold Start up sequence warm it up then put it on the ground get back in it and then try to start it.. This will show me if your starting it up correctly or doing something to flood it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skybluerob Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Morgy I know how Jaco is feeling. People suggesting or even insisting that it is your technique at fault is frustrating. If Jaco is getting the same symptoms as I was, which is clear by his posts, then there is certainly something not quite right with the set-up. Now that my V5 is set up correctly, there's no technique...just pull...!!! Hope you get it sorted Jaco. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgy Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Hi rob There is a technique... As demonstrated by paul baileys little video to jacoolw.. When cold you have to pump the throttle 4/5 times, sometes more on very cold days. This get the fuel into the cylinder. Then you have to crack the throttle very slightly then a long pull. I had a customer who was bending right over to stand and He was also bending right over to get his leg straps on this was causing him starting issues.. Ie flooding the motor. Now he has adapted his getting in and out technique he has no issues. I am sure jacoolw has the cvk carb with the larger bottom end jet.. You do not!! Everything you have said was pointed out to jacoolw in some of the very first posts.. if you read them you might have saved your self some time!! If jacoolw has done everything that myself and bailey have told him to do.. Ie check valves check oil check the jets. Then It has to be down to starting technique. If you can just put your motor together pull the starter and it will run please come and adjust my valves. I have to prime bulb pump throttle then pull.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacoolw Posted February 17, 2013 Author Share Posted February 17, 2013 thanks for the advice Morgy, I lift it straight up with one shoulder in the strap. When transported it is at a 45 degree angle with tank disconnected I'll try to get the engine to a mechanic this week, anyone know if the easy start system is used in bikes or gokarts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skybluerob Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Jaco Have you got anywhere with solving your problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacoolw Posted March 6, 2013 Author Share Posted March 6, 2013 Hi Rob The valve clearnce was checked and it is correct. The engine now have 17 hours on it and it feels like it is getting easier to start, I still have to use two hands and it takes more than 3 pulls before starting but it is manageable. The pulley on the Parajet Zenith frame is lower than the pulley on the Bailey frame, this means there is less rope to pull. I was told to move past the compression and then start the pull,but then there are not enough cord left to get the engine starting. I now start the pull right from the start and this works much better. If I was 15 years older or had any shoulder or back problems this problem would have stopped me from flying, so I suggest If you buy any engine get the salesman to demonstrate starting the engine while on the back before handing over the money. Anyway I'm happy and fly every chance I get (hoping to pull of my first spiral this weekend) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgy Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Hi Jacool You say your running out or pull cord after pulling it past the compression??? take it past the compression then move your arm right the way back to the stop then pull... Not pull past the compression then just poll We now have our stock V5 zenith. I will make a video for you with both the Bailey V5 and the Zenith V5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacoolw Posted March 8, 2013 Author Share Posted March 8, 2013 no thanks, Morgy I dont want to see another video of a Bailey starting on the first pull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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