bholleran Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Hi, I also have a V5 and I can tell you that when I start, I pull to the side. Rather than straight out. I have tried it straight out and I cant do it. Which really surprised me, I assumed it would be buch easier straight out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacoolw Posted December 11, 2012 Author Share Posted December 11, 2012 Bailey is being very helpfull and asked me to do some checks. " If the de-compressor is not working the engine would be impossible to pull start, it is a high performance, high compression engine. If the problem is with the decompressor it will be one of 2 things: 1) EX VALVE CLEARANCE If the exhaust valve clearance is incorrect the decompressor would not work correctly, when checking the ex valve clearance the cam must be position such that the cam follower is not resting on the decompressor cam (a small shaft within the actual camshaft). The correct clearance is 0.1mm (4 thou) and is measured between the cam follower adjuster and valve. 2) DECOMPRESSOR MECHANISM STUCK Very unlikely but possible, please check that the small 'lever' on the decompressor mechanism is free and returns back to the start position, this has a very small return spring. You should be able to 'flick' the lever with a small screwdriver and it should return." I have checked the DECOMPRESSOR MECHANISM, it is not stuck. I'm a bit nervous to expose the valve clearance and have asked Bailey for more detail on how to do this. Here is some photos of the mechanism, it looks the same as the photo's Bailey sent me. In the last 2 photos I have pulled the cord 10cm and released and 20cm and released. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/7ypg27lenuhn3jz/y5uC3cPLBl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgy Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Hi Checking the Valve clearance is easy.... When you know how!! you dont have to expose anything... Bailey will probably describe it better.. Make sure the motor is off!!! Rotate the engine until the inlet Valve is closed. Inlet is the TOP Valve spring closest to the carb. The close section on the cam is the lowest part and when closed the tapit should have a small amount of movement. There should be a very small clearance between the rocker and cam. 0.004 Use appropriate feeler gauge as per the manual. do the same for the exhaust making sure the Decompressor is not touching as this will make you think there is no gap. Make sure it is just before or just after. As your so far away from your dealer It is VERY important you know how to do this... If your not sure go to your local friendly mechanic and get him to show you. I am sure a case of beer will do the trick Have a look at the link below on the way to do it... Ignore the Valve clearance he suggests use Bailey's manual for there clearance's Hope you get this sorted soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerrieB Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 You are right there you don't have to take anything off more then you have to check the valve clearence. You need a feeler gauge to check . you just check between the rocker arm and the top of the valve. I don't know the specs but I used to have to do this on my 1988 GSXR after a weekend of racing way back when.. If you have questions send me a email or a pm and I can walk you through it. Find the specs of the gap you need and get a feeler gauges and you are almost done terrie page 11 shows you how ... page 2 tells you how much you need http://www.baileyaviation.com/TO%20DOWNLOAD/V5%20PPG%20Manual%20V1.pdf Bailey is being very helpfull and asked me to do some checks." If the de-compressor is not working the engine would be impossible to pull start, it is a high performance, high compression engine. If the problem is with the decompressor it will be one of 2 things: 1) EX VALVE CLEARANCE If the exhaust valve clearance is incorrect the decompressor would not work correctly, when checking the ex valve clearance the cam must be position such that the cam follower is not resting on the decompressor cam (a small shaft within the actual camshaft). The correct clearance is 0.1mm (4 thou) and is measured between the cam follower adjuster and valve. 2) DECOMPRESSOR MECHANISM STUCK Very unlikely but possible, please check that the small 'lever' on the decompressor mechanism is free and returns back to the start position, this has a very small return spring. You should be able to 'flick' the lever with a small screwdriver and it should return." I have checked the DECOMPRESSOR MECHANISM, it is not stuck. I'm a bit nervous to expose the valve clearance and have asked Bailey for more detail on how to do this. Here is some photos of the mechanism, it looks the same as the photo's Bailey sent me. In the last 2 photos I have pulled the cord 10cm and released and 20cm and released. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/7ypg27lenuhn3jz/y5uC3cPLBl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 In fairness, its times like this that having a 2 stroke is not such a bad thing. They do seem to have more niggley parts that need setting with a fela gauge. I don't even own a fela gauge that is not rusted together LOL SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgy Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Shame on you SImon for letting your tools go rusty!!! Doing the tapit's on a four stroke is easy... Also it beats having to measure out fuel oil mix, cleaning of un burnt oil residue from your machine after every flight. I have put on over 300 hour's on Bailey's and have only ever had one engine let go... I have a V4 in my garage that has possibly close to 400 hours on it..... She still run's but needs a new cam chain. I still do not think this issue has anything to do with the tapit's anyway. I still think its highly unlikely its the De compressor. It was just a suggestion to check. As Barry said he finds it hard to pull the motor over by pulling forward. So do I... Out to the side is way easier With the set up on that P jet it doe's look impossible to pull to the side with out binding... If your going to buy a V5 buy a Bailey V5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Ha Ha.... well played SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacoolw Posted December 12, 2012 Author Share Posted December 12, 2012 Thanks Terrie and Morgy I was able to do both checks: 1. I confirmed that the valve clearance is 0.1mm 2. The decompressor mechanism is not stuck. Morgy, I agree the Parajet starting pulley should have been designed better, but I doubt that it is the main cause of the problem. I would like Parajet to post a video of a Parajet V5 being started while on the back, so that we can rule out the pulley. cheers, Jaco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacoolw Posted December 12, 2012 Author Share Posted December 12, 2012 Hi Is there anyone else out there with a Parajet v5? Can you pull start whith the engine on your back? cheers, Jaco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacoolw Posted December 14, 2012 Author Share Posted December 14, 2012 I think I found the problem I watched myself in a mirror when I pulled the chord and the chord moves over the throttle cable that mounts next to the pulley when it is pulled at an angle to the right. This will cause a lot of friction. I have removed the throttle cable mount and move it lower on the frame and out of the way. I'll try staring it with this new configuration tomorrow. I should have listened to you Morgy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgy Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 If you can change that pulley to one that swivels It should save you from moving the the throttle.. That Pulley looks like an after thought. A well made after thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgy Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 HiIs there anyone else out there with a Parajet v5? Can you pull start whith the engine on your back? cheers, Jaco I think your one of a very small club there Lacoolw but i could be wrong.. Best ask P jet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_b Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 I would discuss it with Parajet anyway as I am sure they will want to know and sort it out. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacoolw Posted December 15, 2012 Author Share Posted December 15, 2012 Nope, still no luck, I now believe the main problem is with the engine, the cord moves freely over the pulley even when pulled at an angle This is what I noticed yesterday: 1)First attempt of the day with the engine cold and primed. With the engine on my back I can pull the cord with one hand, but can't pull hard or fast enough to get it started.With the engine still on my back I got a bystander to start it and it started on the first pull. 2)Second attemt of the day, the engine has been running for 5 minutes. Now I can't pull the cord with one hand, I have to use 2 hands, it is very hard to pull. I get the same bystander to start it, he is struggling to pull it, he has to pull so hard that I have to brace myself before he pulls.It started after 5 pulls. 3)Third attempt of the day, after 45 minutes of flying. Have to use 2 hands to pull ,give up, tried starting it on the ground, give up after 10 pulls. (I have send this to Bailey and Parajet) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 It's starting to sound to me like an engine thats getting too hot. ??? Shame about the distance. if you were in the UK this would have been squared away by now..... My advice, as painful as it is, is to get it back to the dealer (before you start to tinker) Maybe they will have another motor you can borrow while the problem is fixed? I assume that the engine is warranted by Bailey (via Parajet) in your case. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgy Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Its is a shame your not in the uk as you could have popped over for us to have a look at... Best to contact Bailey.... Make sure your pulling it after the compression... as i said before... Starting when hot you will need to crack the throttle open 1/4 and will fire first time. Starting from cold seems to be ok as you said it started first pull with help... So i still think its to do with the set up of the pulley It would be good to see a photo if it on you back. and to see the pull start.geometry If the pulley is low on your back this will make it harder. As why the helper could not pull it over i have not idea unless he wasn't going past the compression. We still have to Brace against the shoulder of the pilot when starting a motor for some one who has flooded. This sounds normal to me. If when the motor is hot and you pump the throttle you can flood it a little and then takes a few pulls to remove excess fuel... Without seing what your doing it is very hard... It could be the engine or the way your doing it... Were you shown by your dealer???? If you can post a photo or two and poss a video to youtube this will help Bailey Or Parajet. or your dealer. Have you tried to turn the motor over by hand with the prop on (switched off of course) to see if it feels excessively stiff. I will try to do you a little video tomorrow on how we start our motors. Regards Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacoolw Posted December 15, 2012 Author Share Posted December 15, 2012 Hi Mark There is no point where the compression stops when pulling the cord. It goes from very hard to pull, the first 20cm to hard to pull. There is no point where it gets easy to pull. When pulling it , it feels like you are pulling a rope that is wrapped around a heavy wheel with a heavy weight on on side of the wheel. The first 20cm is very hard to get the wheel moving then it get slightly easier when the wheel starts moving, but you still have to pull extra hard when the weight is at the bottom of the wheel, to keep the wheel moving. . cheers, Jaco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bholleran Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Hi, Can you try it without the spark plug and tell us it it is the same? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notch Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Four strokes are much harder to start when hot, but shouldn't be harder to pull over when hot... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgy Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Hi I went for a quick fly this evening as the wind dropped... I moved my pulley to the lower postion on the top of the chassis to simulate your Parajet set up. It made it much harder to pull over...Almost to the point of not being able to get enough power to get it to fire up. If it wasn't for the fact my motor starts up very easily i would not have been able to start it. Also it felt like it was rubbing somewhere on my harness and my arm was in a very uncomfortable starting postion. Regards Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacoolw Posted December 18, 2012 Author Share Posted December 18, 2012 Hi Morgy Yes, I agree, it is in a uncomfortable position, if it can be raised 20cm it will make a big difference,it might just be a case of a new engine that is hard to start and pulley that is in the wrong position. After how many hours did your engine get easier to start? Bailey and Parajet have asked me to send them a video of me trying to start the engine, if they don't see anything obviously wrong I'll return it to the dealer and they will sort out the problem with Bailey's /Parajet help. I really hope it is something I'm doing wrong, or something easy to fix, otherswise I won't be flying for months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgy Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 My engine was a little stiff when brand new... But after a couple of hours it was fine. It also took me a little while to get used to a pull start as my V3 before was Electric start. From what your saying it does sound like Badly adjusted harness or badly set up pulley with possibly the wrong starting process. I have yet to have a motor that will not start first few pull's unless its flooded by to many pumps when warm. http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=101 ... =2&theater hope you get it sorted It would be good for you to show your starting on here !! regards Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgy Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Come on send the Video over you sent to Parajet and Bailey!!! Where is it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacoolw Posted December 21, 2012 Author Share Posted December 21, 2012 here it is: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/7ypg27lenuhn3jz/y5uC3cPLBl I have not heard back from Bailey or Parajet. cheers, Jaco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richwill15 Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Thanks for posting that mate. I'm certainly not qualified to comment but the only obs i have is that on the ground you're pulling the starter cord more or less horizontal to the ground. Whilst on your back you're obviously pulling up and over the shoulder. Could it be that it's too low on your back? Like I said, I really can't comment and my obs may be totally off whack. But, I also wanted to say I really appreciate you posting it. I think it will be amazingly helpful to a lot of people. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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