jock Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 If ppg gets regulated you might as well go nano trike,ive been getting the bits i need to build delta trike,got wide axle buggy.got my hangliders,got the volution to fit on the back.just need to get mast done and get flying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 OK, All of the things that are happening here are good The CAA have been in contact with the underwriters and I now have to contact them to suggest an altarnative voluntary registration database that can be accessed by them both and leaves an audit trail. There is clearly going to be a delay because of this but the end result is much better. In a nut shell, the CAA don't have capacity to register everyones kit or maintain that database and would be happy to see it done independently. By this I mean a separate website with the sole purpose of registering your wing / self. Not BHPA, PMC, or BMAA... Just a register for those who want it / the insurance. Talking to underwriters tomorrow. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enzo200500 Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 And who would fund/moderate this site Simon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Not me thats for sure... As I see it, a user will be able to update his or her details (as long as an audit trail is kept) and it needs to be accessible by both the insurance company and the CAA ( I presume ) So... it should not require a huge amount of admin. This is the awesomeness of the internet SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybound Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 I would say that it needs to be set up, paid for and administrated by the party requesting it. Simples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquatix Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 No offence to anyone involved, but is it worth the hassle ? By that I mean the additional effort, financial cost and admin / bureaucracy involved to provide (or obtain) something which is already well established and available elsewhere for less ..... Freedom of choice is great and it may well appeal to a small minority of people, but will such a niche product be commercially sustainable ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 I would say that it needs to be set up, paid for and administrated by the party requesting it. Simples. Clive it's a nice idea, but I dont think the Underwriters are about to set up a database for us. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 I already have a few e-mails from people willing to set this up. A positive mental attitude and some awesome members go a long long way SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybound Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 I would say that it needs to be set up, paid for and administrated by the party requesting it. Simples. Clive it's a nice idea, but I dont think the Underwriters are about to set up a database for us. SW Traffords are the ones imposing another level of red tape to this already deregulated activity,but exspect someone els to administrate it for them! Unreal and ludicrous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_k Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Looks like this one is going to run and run.... Here's my suggestion, keep it simple. Make use of an existing system - postcodes. Apply the first 3 or 4 characters on the wing, DY9, WG43 or whatever. The insurance company will already have your 'reference' in their records, plus colour of wing. We're not talking big numbers here, what's the likely-hood of same wing same postcode? Could always incorporate the next character as well. Just my 2p Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 so no-ones going to set it up, therefore the underwriters won't underwrite it and no policy will be available.Just join the bhpa, do the power rating and get your ins for £100/year, why bother with the extra aggro and expense..? The point is that I am doing the agro bit, so others dont have too. I think the point that BHPA members don't get, is that there are lots of people who just dont want to be a member for a number of reasons. The insurance the BHPA provide is not a seller for them unless they force people to have it (comps and so on). I also know the BHPA to be reliant on a legal team to ensure a low number of pay outs (thats the members claiming were talking about) a legal team to fight the members claims!. I wonder who pays for them? (not a dig, I do actually wonder) Here is a little something for you. Many years ago, I was sat on a PG hill as a CP (bhpa) pilot. I was watching about 30 people flying on the hill. A guy arrived, to see this... along with a small group of others.. laid out the wings and went for a launch. the 30 odd people are still in the air, all of the other guys get away, but one of them gets blown back and dents the roof of a fellow BHPA pilots car. All thought it would be covered by the BHPA insurance, but the response was along the lines of... You were not covered because you were flying outside of the BHPA recommended flying conditions. Both of those people are still flying the same hill and are no longer members of the BHPA. I could go on for DAYS with similar stories. Thats not going to make me rush into paying £100 for a non legally required 'insurance' thats for sure. As I keep saying... if your in the BHPA and happy, great! but guys... your getting like those people that keep knocking on my door trying to sell me a religion !!! Be happy with what you have but dont try to ram it down neck every time someone writes the word Insurance. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 I deffo got to get me a like button thing! SW D Looks like this one is going to run and run....Here's my suggestion, keep it simple. Make use of an existing system - postcodes. Apply the first 3 or 4 characters on the wing, DY9, WG43 or whatever. The insurance company will already have your 'reference' in their records, plus colour of wing. We're not talking big numbers here, what's the likely-hood of same wing same postcode? Could always incorporate the next character as well. Just my 2p Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bholleran Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Would it not be possible to not print any thing extra on the wing - as it will affect resale value, but still register it using the Wings Serial No, and engine serial number, along with the wing make \ model \ colour etc. If It this is only for the purpose of insurance, rather than watching for people doing things that they shouldnt, I dont see why this could not work. As you would only be using the insurance if you crash into something. In which case the serial on the wing should suffice. If it were this type of system I would use it. I already have BHPA insurance for my free flying. I sat the Pilot exam and was led to believe at the time that the Pilot rating was the same for both hill and power. That now turns out not to be the case. If you sit the Hill pilot exam it does not cover you for Power, but if you sit the Power exam it does cover you for both. This is a real pain as I would now need to resit the Power pilot exam to get appropriate insurance. There are very few places locally where it is easy to go and take a refresher course to get back into exam mode. Just my 2p worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_b Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Would it not be possible to not print any thing extra on the wing - as it will affect resale value, but still register it using the Wings Serial No, and engine serial number, along with the wing make \ model \ colour etc.If It this is only for the purpose of insurance, rather than watching for people doing things that they shouldnt, I dont see why this could not work. As you would only be using the insurance if you crash into something. In which case the serial on the wing should suffice. If it were this type of system I would use it. I already have BHPA insurance for my free flying. I sat the Pilot exam and was led to believe at the time that the Pilot rating was the same for both hill and power. That now turns out not to be the case. If you sit the Hill pilot exam it does not cover you for Power, but if you sit the Power exam it does cover you for both. This is a real pain as I would now need to resit the Power pilot exam to get appropriate insurance. There are very few places locally where it is easy to go and take a refresher course to get back into exam mode. Just my 2p worth. Stick on letters can be removed with no damage. physical or cosmetic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enzo200500 Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Peoples Front of Judea....SPLITTERS!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_b Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Stick on letters can be removed with no damage. physical or cosmetic. ask flying doc about his stick on letters and why he chose to sell his wing with them still on or ask paul haxby about stick on letters on a wing he took in p/ex.... and if you do manage to get them off, what about the coating on the wing cloth..?? will that remain undamaged..? i have seen wings where letters/logo's have been removed and you can still see/read what was there, a bit like when you peel off vinyl stickers from a van, no amount of t-cut or polish will get rid of the ghosting, same as on a wing and you can't rub t-cut in to make it fade.... Ask the comp boys. Mine came off with no visible marks (yes it does take a little work to get the sticky residue off but it does come off. The reason you see it on a van is the other paint has faded in the sun, how much sun do you get shining on the underside of your wing? and what paint is on it!!! If you warm them they come off easy. If I was taking a wing in p/ex with stickers on then obviously the price would be lower . If you don't want to do it DONT just stop moaning and go fly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outkast Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Stick on letters can be removed with no damage. physical or cosmetic. ask flying doc about his stick on letters and why he chose to sell his wing with them still on or ask paul haxby about stick on letters on a wing he took in p/ex.... and if you do manage to get them off, what about the coating on the wing cloth..?? will that remain undamaged..? i have seen wings where letters/logo's have been removed and you can still see/read what was there, a bit like when you peel off vinyl stickers from a van, no amount of t-cut or polish will get rid of the ghosting, same as on a wing and you can't rub t-cut in to make it fade.... Ask the comp boys. Mine came off with no visible marks (yes it does take a little work to get the sticky residue off but it does come off. The reason you see it on a van is the other paint has faded in the sun, how much sun do you get shining on the underside of your wing? and what paint is on it!!! If you warm them they come off easy. If I was taking a wing in p/ex with stickers on then obviously the price would be lower . If you don't want to do it DONT just stop moaning and go fly Amen to that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquatix Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Been out flying today - it was great, until it overdeveloped with storm clouds ....... maybe due to the thermals coming off this thread ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Perception. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Roman's go home. Write it out a thousand times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_b Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 ffspete - who's moaning? i am not moaning, i only offered what i know from experience i thought this was a public forum for open and honest discussion of all things ppg my previous posts on this subject have been about raising concerns about how an alternative insurance scheme would work against whats already on offer via the bhpa, you see it as moaning, whats the next step? kick me off and delete my account because i'm not a yes man..? i am not knocking simon for all he is doing and i'm not trying to shoot him down and pick holes in everything he says, simply asking questions and giving my input on what is a very hot topic for all ppg pilots at the moment. i'm sure i'm not the only one who does not want to stick numbers on my wing, have a fireproof plate on my motor, be on a database run by 'someone' and pay more money than you have to than if you just joined the bhpa. a lot of us are drawn to ppg because of the low cost and lack of paperwork/regs, we all know someone who used to fly microlights or other ga and gave it up for the reason of cost and regs etc. this new way of getting insurance is drawing us into that world you and simon have always been at the forefront singing the praises of ppg and how easy it is to get into aviation without all the red tape, now it seems you are both actively promoting beauracracy...... whats the story of on risk/joint aviation services pulling out of ppg insurance.? why did they? they must have their reasons, does anyone know.? answers below please... Did you not notice the smilie face after my comment?? If you want insurance and you do not want to join the bhpa then I think this is a small thing to have to do to get it, thats all I was getting at. Now go and fly you Naughty Naughty boy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Meds, The reason that Joint aviations underwriters (albion) pulled out is because they spent more more than they earned for the last 3 years of insuring the sport. Also... The only thing I am trying to do here is get insurance for the masses so that people have a option. You don't have to take either option. The sport is still de-regulated. No one is pushing for wing reg... if you read the posts you will see that we are trying to avoid that. It was put on the table by LLoyds as a must have ( not the insurance company ) As far as I am aware you have to register your wing with the BHPA as a power pilot to get their insurance... so what makes what we are trying to do so different? SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 I am sorry to say that you will NEED to read the posts dude... The wing reg and fire proof plate are requirements of a CAA registration. The CAA and the insurance company are trying to help us to create a database outside of that system that will satisfy the underwriters. If this happens the end result will be a policy that requires a simple / free / online registration process. Thats about as clear as I can make it. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratosphere Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 As far as I am aware you have to register your wing with the BHPA as a power pilot to get their insurance... so what makes what we are trying to do so different? SW No you don't, only if it's uncertified. Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Cool, Thanks. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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