Safety Paragliding -v- Paramotoring

[Cessna]

Hi All

Had just decided to learn to Paraglide first, then convert to Paramotors when a paraglider pilot is seriously injured on Firle beacon. There seems to be a section of thought that says slope soaring with a paraglider is inherently dangerous as there is not enough time to sort out tucks or deploy reserves. I guess it was similar situation when I was gliding on a ridge, if you needed to leave the glider there was little or no time to pull your chute.

Does the ability of Paramotors to select a safe "cruising height" make them safer?

Interested in your thoughts....

Kind regards

Cessna

[pete_b]

YES

Hight is your friend it will give you more time to get things sorted.

Go straight for the motor.

You can go back for hill training later if you wish.

[s1buell_wl]

You need to reverse your train of thought "height is you friend" Like stated it gives you time to sort it out or panic and throw the chute heheheh.

No word of a lie my instructor always said "your never dead until you hit the ground". He loved this saying.

Ridge soaring is normally done in the smooth sea air or so people want to believe, but it only takes a hot day and a little nasty bubble to send your glider for a loop. people get comfortable with their sites and forget this. I'm one of them I remember at our old site scratching so hard to say up my harness was inches above the trees. Or you start wing overs 150 - 200 meters from the ground...

But I did start paragliding first like you and moved to paramotor. Well I still do both tell you the truth. It's just so much easier to pack the wife and little one and head to the beach. If there is wind I kitesurf, no wind motor. Not to many wife's like to sit at the top of a mountain and wait for you to come down while they do nothing. Beach fills that nothing void.

Motor gives you the ability of not using thermals to stay up. This in turn (in my view) lowers the chance of you getting "wacked" and maybe its wacked at low altitude. I personally have had a ton of collapses taking off in free flight but it was mainly our location and the way the thermals rolled up the hill. We never stayed low level there.

Let face it thermals are unstable air by definition. But wonderful

[aquatix]

Reducing the safety issue to height alone is oversimplifying the question. The biggest risk factors are choice of weather conditions (paramotors can fly in calm air) and terrain for launching / landing (a steep rocky mountain carries more risk than an open grass field or beach).

Pottering about in a motor boat on a lake or canal carries less risk than taking to the ocean in a sailing boat. It is all a question of Risk & Reward.

With the right pilot attitude, skill level and decision making I believe that PG & PPG flying is equally safe - or equally dangerous once you choose to push any of the limits .....

[Guest]

One of the main reasons I moved from PG to PPG was the number of accidents that happen to experienced pilots. From landing in trees and on cars, to collapses at 30ft on a daily basis. Most of the time this was due to the desperation of the pilots to get some air time as the window for flying is so small.

As a newbie seeing this for a couple of years, paramotoring became the clear winner for me.

My own thoughts are that Paragliding is considerably more dangerous than Paramotoring and that you do not need to be able to Paraglide before flying a paramotor.

Whatever you end up doing, enjoy it they are both fun just do your personal risk / reward analysis and go for it.

SW

[Cessna]

Hi All

And many thanks for your responses.. we all know the saying "there are Old pilot's or Bold pilots.. but few Old-Bold pilots" and I guess as I have been flying regularly since 1981 I'm not very bold!

I risk assess much of what I do (it's my profession) and with family responsibilities your views provide confirmation of my own concerns.

Think it will be some basic Paragliding training to learn the ground handling, basic processes (wing handling, takeoff/landing) and then onwards to the "motor" and limit my exposure to the limited options-danger zone.

Cheers

Cessna

[pauldeakin]

yes, it is much easier to fly in safe conditions and at a safer height with a motor

[aquatix]

yes, it is much easier to fly in safe conditions and at a safer height with a motor

True ..... but it seems to take an awful lot of bent cages and shattered props to achieve that safe height.

Comparing the much higher number of people and hours flown in PG to the smaller number involved in PPG gives a more balanced number of 'incidents' in both - but still with thankfully very few serious or fatal incidents given the potential risk factors compared to other sports.

[Guest]

A broken prop is a pain in the wallet more than a safety issue. I have seen plenty of props busted and never seen an injury as a result of that broken prop.

I think were talking about safety with regards to Injury here rather than kit.

SW

[s1buell_wl]

You know what there is a ton of merit to the comment "itch to fly" the need to fill the itch get's allot of people in trouble. What I mean is driving all the way to the mountain some times climbing only to find the wrong conditions once there. You really need the right set of conditions to have a good free flight. Also you need to understand what going on up there and what might happen in the next few hours. Sometimes (allot of times) the itch overcomes true abilities and safety. People take off for a free flight when they should not

For me motor'ing opens up so much more flying time and removes a ton of variable weather conditions i would have to factor in.

Great example. I have a family lunch at 1pm Sat. No possible way go fly. We will have cloud cover this weekend with south in the mountains. So they will not be possible to fly, but people will go.

However we have 2-5kns south hitting the beach. Bingo off to the beach I go for 7am to catch 3-4h of flying

[Guest]

Happy days !!

SW

[alan_k]

That's why we do PPG

Can I have a bit of your weather Tom, it's been absolutely cr*p all month over here.

Certainly got the itch now

Cheers,

Alan

[tommcb6016]

If you paraglided at 8pm on a summers evening then it would be just a safe as paramotoring but you would only be in the air as long as it took you to get from top to bottom, that's why we use motors to fly in calm conditions.

If you paraglide when the thermals are kicking off then it gets more dangerous, but so would paramotoring.

[s1buell_wl]

That's why we do PPG

Can I have a bit of your weather Tom, it's been absolutely cr*p all month over here.

Certainly got the itch now

Cheers,

Alan

Alan I would love to help you out! everyone needs to fly!!!!! lol

I have had six weeks of nothing but sun and rising air but like all things my little rain of terror is about to end. I hope to get a fly off in the morning but then "rain" will be the key word

http://www.windguru.cz/int/index.php?go ... &sc=122062

looks like a week of it! as that say in Brazil "Porra"

I made another video of this place I love to fly, really nice beach. I'm going to add some music and post.

If you guys ever find yourself in Brasil I have an extra room and one hour north world class free flying same to the south. Then in the middle I have 100 beaches to exploit lol

I get lonely flying solo.....

Cheers... Time for beer!

T

[Quinoxyfen]

http://footflyer.com/Safety/Incidents/i ... alysis.htm

This is quite interesting, ppg is safer than riding a motorbike!

[poz]

yes, it is much easier to fly in safe conditions and at a safer height with a motor

True ..... but it seems to take an awful lot of bent cages and shattered props to achieve that safe height.

Oh how true!!

I went through 4 props and 3 bent cages before things started to click.

[pete_b]

yes, it is much easier to fly in safe conditions and at a safer height with a motor

True ..... but it seems to take an awful lot of bent cages and shattered props to achieve that safe height.

Oh how true!!

I went through 4 props and 3 bent cages before things started to click.

Better than broken bones guys

[pauldeakin]

..... but it seems to take an awful lot of bent cages and shattered props to achieve that safe height.

........

Very true, obviously the amount of mishaps can be greatly reduced if a lot of time is spent ground handling with a ground handling harness and with a paramotor not running (maybe with prop removed).

The average Paramotor pilot seems to spend a lot less time practising these skills than paraglider pilots. I can think of two reasons for this;

1. It is hard work practising with a motor on your back.

2. Paraglider pilots have a lot more opportunities when they are waiting on the hill for the wind to increase or decrease or change direction.

[s1buell_wl]

..... but it seems to take an awful lot of bent cages and shattered props to achieve that safe height.

........

Very true, obviously the amount of mishaps can be greatly reduced if a lot of time is spent ground handling with a ground handling harness and with a paramotor not running (maybe with prop removed).

The average Paramotor pilot seems to spend a lot less time practising these skills than paraglider pilots. I can think of two reasons for this;

1. It is hard work practising with a motor on your back.

2. Paraglider pilots have a lot more opportunities when they are waiting on the hill for the wind to increase or decrease or change direction.

I agree and dissagree

I agree 100% ground handling would reduce most of these misshapes. I remember when I was learning we had a nice hill and the teacher would have the students (after you where comfortable of course) play a little game if you wished. The game was glider fights. Now the hill was cut grass, soft and the wind was perfect. I have not seen another place like this to train. In the game you launched the glider got it stable then tried to take the wind from the other or collapse his tips until they lost control. This game help us develop some great glider skills on the ground and took some of boardem out of learning to ground handle. He was always there to add a hand and grab the right line to make the loss of control without pain until you learned how to grab the right line.

I disagree that more paraglider guys have better skills. I see so many people in free flight that run off the hill hoping the glider is over their head. I think paragliding is worse and demands you have these skills. It's strange your right they could practice but they never do.

I still grab a glider and mess around on the ground, its fun and burns off some un-needed beer fat. Its a win win.

[rob_jones]

A broken prop is a pain in the wallet more than a safety issue. I have seen plenty of props busted and never seen an injury as a result of that broken prop.

I think were talking about safety with regards to Injury here rather than kit.

SW

I seem to recall sitting in s field watching Pete try to take off and his prop slice open a fuel tank which burst into flames. Wasnt the injury from that a broken leg and burns?

[pete_b]

A broken prop is a pain in the wallet more than a safety issue. I have seen plenty of props busted and never seen an injury as a result of that broken prop.

I think were talking about safety with regards to Injury here rather than kit.

SW

I seem to recall sitting in s field watching Pete try to take off and his prop slice open a fuel tank which burst into flames. Wasnt the injury from that a broken leg and burns?

Due to not doing me pre flights and having the speed line pulled in on one side. the strobes I had on the frame ignited the petrol not the prop

[rob_jones]

A broken prop is a pain in the wallet more than a safety issue. I have seen plenty of props busted and never seen an injury as a result of that broken prop.

I think were talking about safety with regards to Injury here rather than kit.

SW

I seem to recall sitting in s field watching Pete try to take off and his prop slice open a fuel tank which burst into flames. Wasnt the injury from that a broken leg and burns?

Due to not doing me pre flights and having the speed line pulled in on one side. the strobes I had on the frame ignited the petrol not the prop

I would say without the prop slicing off the filler throat and then the fuel vaporising as it got sprayed over the field it wouldnt of blown - was quite impressive all the same and not everyday you see someone effectively blow up.

[pete_b]

A broken prop is a pain in the wallet more than a safety issue. I have seen plenty of props busted and never seen an injury as a result of that broken prop.

I think were talking about safety with regards to Injury here rather than kit.

SW

I seem to recall sitting in s field watching Pete try to take off and his prop slice open a fuel tank which burst into flames. Wasnt the injury from that a broken leg and burns?

Due to not doing me pre flights and having the speed line pulled in on one side. the strobes I had on the frame ignited the petrol not the prop

I would say without the prop slicing off the filler throat and then the fuel vaporising as it got sprayed over the field it wouldnt of blown - was quite impressive all the same and not everyday you see someone effectively blow up.

I try my best to entertain everyone .

[s1buell_wl]

Parapyro motor.

nice!

[outkast]

A broken prop is a pain in the wallet more than a safety issue. I have seen plenty of props busted and never seen an injury as a result of that broken prop.

I think were talking about safety with regards to Injury here rather than kit.

SW

I seem to recall sitting in s field watching Pete try to take off and his prop slice open a fuel tank which burst into flames. Wasnt the injury from that a broken leg and burns?

Due to not doing me pre flights and having the speed line pulled in on one side. the strobes I had on the frame ignited the petrol not the prop

I would say without the prop slicing off the filler throat and then the fuel vaporising as it got sprayed over the field it wouldnt of blown - was quite impressive all the same and not everyday you see someone effectively blow up.

I try my best to entertain everyone .

by that point I had put my camera away, just think Pete that could have been £250 towards your new kit if I hadnt