pete_b Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Looking at the recent price increase on most paramotors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_k Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 As a comparison the X-Generation Polini Thor 200 is available for €5200. That's about £4300. So I've opted for the middle choice. Cheers, Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_b Posted April 9, 2012 Author Share Posted April 9, 2012 As a comparison the X-Generation Polini Thor 200 is available for €5200. That's about £4300.So I've opted for the middle choice. Cheers, Alan Sorry about that Alan but Im old school and not in to Euros I still use them old things (now and then) called inches. Its what we used before millimetres for all you youngsters out there. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilzy Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Thats about 4,100 guinea's if that helps Pete!!! Ps im with ya on this one bring back inches, and feet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outkast Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Thats about 4,100 guinea's if that helps Pete!!!Ps im with ya on this one bring back inches, and feet Whenever I tell women they always think I am talking in centimetres Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquatix Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 The current crop of paramotors costing £5.5k + is getting ridiculously close to small family hatchback prices, which are massively more complicated, much more reliable with better warranties etc .... I know it is down to economies of scale and the latest paramotors have some great (but minor) improvements, but really anything over £3.5k seems hard to justify. We are paying a premium for an 'aircraft' when they are not even aviation certified ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommcb6016 Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 £3500 should buy you a decent machine looking at what goes into them, but it seems that £5000+ is becoming more common. How much could you buy an engine for? Thor 200 ? When you start milling everything from billet it's going to cost more than just rolling ally tube, also parajet use the hydroformed aero section that's got to be considerably more expensive than stock tube. As aquatix said its down to production numbers the more you make the cheaper it gets. I can't see me ever buying a new Paramotor as their are to many rich mid life crisis types who buy all the kit and give up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trickyh Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 You and I can buy a Polini Thor 200 for 2.4k, so you can assume Parajet are paying Polini approx 1.8 - 2k for them. So 3.5k for Cage, Chassis, Arms, Harness, Prop and Tank (including dealers profit margin). I'd hate to see the price of spare parts if you bend it! TBH. I was suprised when Bailey announced the price of the V5 last year, but people seem to like them (and be buying them) I hope other manufacturers take note and start to produce well designed, reliable, lightweight paramotors at a good pricepoint, as they'd make a killing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilzy Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 To be fair there a lot of work and tooling go into a build and when you break it down and take off the dreaded 20% tax include overheads such as premises, utlities, rates, wages, heating, advertising, r&d etc i would imagine there not as much as you think to be made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommcb6016 Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 You and I can buy a Polini Thor 200 for 2.4k, Yeah maybe £3500 was a tad optimistic then :-/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_b Posted April 9, 2012 Author Share Posted April 9, 2012 To be fair there a lot of work and tooling go into a build and when you break it down and take off the dreaded 20% tax include overheads such as premises, utlities, rates, wages, heating, advertising, r&d etc i would imagine there not as much as you think to be made. Totally agree with you on this, The overheads in this country are crippling all small business. But Im sure there is a good market out there for a basic reliable paramotor. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s1buell_wl Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Don't forget import taxes for people that are not local to the maker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 You will most likely find that the importing country pats less tax than us. When you export you do not include the 20% UK tax. (hence why they pay local tax) SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommcb6016 Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 You will most likely find that the importing country pats less tax than us. When you export you do not include the 20% UK tax. (hence why they pay local tax) SW Brazil Has some of the highest import duty in the world 100% in some cases Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy202020 Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 I guess the question is not whether it costs lots to CNC nice shapes out of solid blocks of aero grade alluminium but rather what do you gain as a customer? I dont know a lot about paramotors, but I have some experience in making technology products. And making a product in a low volume luxury market that has "good value" attached often means you sell less for less money as everyone boasts about how much better their superlite is for twice the price. I can see more power is useful if you are larger, reliability, quietness, weight, being able to easily take it apart for transport. But when it comes to shaped aerofoil sections in the frame when there is a great big shaggy pilot sitting in front of it I start to lose my understanding of the benefits. What I do know is that in a sport where a large number of people will pay to have the best...you want to make the top end product and charge accordingly. People will pay. If you make a product that is a pound heavier and finished in a cheaper fashion and offer something cheaper with less margin, you usually find you dont sell any more. In fact the guy with the bells on sells more as there is a perceived value and mysticism that surrounds this top end kit. The other trick is to sell manufacturer recon units for nearly the same money as new ones. Makes people think that the kit holds it value and keeps up the perceived value. Makes people buy new and feel they will be making an investment. If you know a lot about paramotors I guess you can pick up a lot of kit cheaply on ebay, but you really need to know your stuff. From people who have started and given up with twisted ankles! Andy I have hurt my knee before I even started..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon_dunn Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Yes- i agree.... CNC machined parts, aerofoil sections- it's a bit like streamlining a steam locomotive! (no disrespect to the Mallard). Paramotor manufacturers need to think 'leaner', work smarter not harder! Costs definitely can be taken out of these machines- but the processes and materials need to suited to mass production. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enzo200500 Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Like plastics?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_b Posted April 10, 2012 Author Share Posted April 10, 2012 Like plastics?? And so much cheaper as well Renegade paramotor $5900 with moster engine (£3700 + shipping+vat+import duty) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmwood Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Like plastics?? Trust you to dig that one up...interesting though.. Now if only they made plastic wings ..I would snap one up.. get it? Boom Boom ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon_dunn Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Yes- Glass reinforced plastic, pretty good- the injection moulding tooling must have cost a fortune though- but the product does look good, and is relatively cheap and light. Would be worried about flying in very cold conditions- some plastics can get very brittle when cold. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trickyh Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Yes- Glass reinforced plastic, pretty good- the injection moulding tooling must have cost a fortune though- but the product does look good, and is relatively cheap and light.Would be worried about flying in very cold conditions- some plastics can get very brittle when cold. GD I was thinking the same thing... They must've invested 100k+ in tooling alone... What it needs is someone to setup importing the cheap, light parts from the US (or direct from the Far Eastern injection mould facility and pay them a percentage) and marry them to a european made motor (Vittorazi, Polini etc) There's no point buying a motor from the US that has just been imported there from Italy! Assemble the parts in a nice double garage (to keep overheads down) and advertise on the internet, maybe sponsor a talented pilot to get a ranking at the NATS.... Job done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 LOLOL If only business were that simple SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trickyh Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Thats why you will not see me giving up my day job But if someone nicks my idea, I have first dibs on a demonstrator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 It IS a good idea for someone with time and money. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon_dunn Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 The trouble with glass reinforced plastic too is the material is very abrasive on the injection mould tooling- so there will be a lot of overhead costs on maintainance and retooling. Also- because of cost limitations on tooling- i bet these guys do one size of frame only (for now anyway) Miniplane are probably a step closer to the ideal situation with their fibre-glass cage supports- standard extruded sections- cut to length. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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