Which oil??????

[s1buell_wl]

Yes, already know about JASO / API standards, lubricity, viscosity etc. Curious to know exactly why TTS is considered harmful to Simonini engines yet works perfectly well in others. Most paramotors run at similar RPM and temperature ranges therefore do not need to cope with high rpm (like karts) or extreme temperatures (like snowmobiles).

As for full or semi synthetic base esters, my understanding is semi can withstand being premixed with fuel for longer periods than full synthetic .... ?

I think I found out why (its due to the reduction in corrosion protection when the motor sits for extended periods due to TTS containing 20% Kerosene)

From A bike forum I'm on. Another interesting read.... I'll be doing some more reading. I'm now guessing my oil has 20% kerosene..... shit. Either way the oild will work fine but when the motor is sitting for extended periods corrosion protection will be reduced due to the Kerosene. Kerosene can not be good for these little high stressed engines either. Also it will cause unneeded carbon build up.

"Castrol TTS is not fully synthetic as it contains 20% kerosene, to thin the PIB low smoke additive in the oil enough to make it usable in things like scooters with autolube systems fitted. No problem using it in trials bikes though, but not a good idea to run at the type of ratios you would want to use with a race type fully synthetic intended for pre-mix machines.

Primarily the reason semi synthetic or even mineral oils are recommended for use in trials machines is due to synthetic oils not burning anywhere near as easily as alternatives, which will result in exhaust systems which get clogged pretty quickly when full synthetics are used at the type of mix ratios appropriate for high heat motors such as road race and MX.

As to selection of a true fully synthetic race oil, you need to look for products which are intended for pre-mix machines, that are generally higher viscosity than the scooter type autolube oils, and in most cases will not be JASO or API rated as they do not include PIB low smoke additives. Bel Ray MC1 is an oil I first used many years ago, and is a product which is designed for pre-mix machines, and may be much more easily available outside the UK than something like XR77.

Finally very thin scooter type synthetic oils are not great at protecting motor internals from corrosion, especially when bikes are used infrequently. However this is not the case with race type synthetics which are of higher viscosity, and offer very good corrosion protection.

You need to use fully synthetic race type oil designed for pre-mix use. Anything diluted with kerosene to allow use in autolube systems means using more oil, and the thinned down stuff is not that great when it comes to corrosion protection on bikes which are sometimes used infrequently. (paramotors for sure)

The difference between scooter autolube oils and proper fully synthetic pre-mix products is clarified in the mix ratios recommended by Amsoil here: http://www.amsoil.com/a/synthetic-2-cycle-oil

50:1 mix ratio is recommended for anyone using one of Amsoils very thin scooter autolube oils for pre-mix applications, while 100:1 is suggested when their fully synthetic race pre-mix oils are being used.

As trials motors are very low heat, I would think using a scooter oil at 70:1 for watercooled motors would be fine, but obviously better to use a product designed specifically for pre-mix use, which can be safely run at 100:1 in a watercooled motor.

Finally the fact that trials motors dont run very hot, means that use of any oil which is inclusive of synthetic base stocks, will mean exhaust clogging will occur pretty quickly, if they are used at the type of ratios suggested for road/race/mx use, where running temperatures are far higher."

Here is an example of full synch pre-mix oil

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-767-castrol ... e-oil.aspx

About Castrol XR-77 Fully Synthetic Pre-Mix Racing 2 Stroke Oil

Castrol XR77 Is the ultimate pre-mix racing 2-stroke engine oil based on fully synthetic technology.

Since the unveiling of Castrol A747 in 1976 there have been numerous technical developments in the field of Grand Prix Road Racing and competition engine power has risen from 300 bhp/litre to over 400 bhp/litre. Engine design now also allows for the use of unleaded fuels without significant performance drop despite unleaded fuel having different composition and properties than other fuels.

[s1buell_wl]

Light at the end of the tunnel!

Motul 800 is proper fully synthetic race oil, designed for pre-mix use, so will work fine at 80-100:1 in watercooled bikes. Motul do make an autolube scooter oil and this is designated 710, but not sure why anyone would want to use this for trials?

I will be quickly switching to Motul 800 as I can get it here! Also recommended by simonini

My eyes are going to fall out from reading..... time for a beer.

no more oil questions please! lol

I'm amazed what you can lean about the reality of what you thought you knew!

[norbertflyer]

Does anyone else have personal quantifiable/empirical long term evidence of a particular Oil/Engine combination being trouble free?

Richard.

[alan_k]

Can't match your 960 hours Richard

Have run fully synthetic with my Solo210 for 150 hours with no problems.

Max revs is about 6500 with my set up.

Cheers, Alan

[clivefreeman]

Ive been using the Motul at 70-1

[slapper]

Have always used Motul 800 since i started, have never had any problems.

But have always mixed 50:1, why do you mix 70:1? is it due to Quality of oil

or does your engine recommend 70:1.

[clivefreeman]

I was told to by my dealer cause of the quality of the oil was much better. And i have never had any trouble with it and it seems a lot less messy ( no oil splatering out the exhaust all the time) Done just over 35 hours on a moster !!

[s1buell_wl]

Have always used Motul 800 since i started, have never had any problems.

But have always mixed 50:1, why do you mix 70:1? is it due to Quality of oil

or does your engine recommend 70:1.

Miniplane is 60:1

check with your dealer.

I could see going to 65-70:1here in the winter. But when its summer and 35+ I would go back to 60:1

I was shocked to see the mixes the guys were using on the low rev bikes. But they don't have the stress and heat.

[clivefreeman]

Have always used Motul 800 since i started, have never had any problems.

But have always mixed 50:1, why do you mix 70:1? is it due to Quality of oil

or does your engine recommend 70:1.

Miniplane is 60:1

check with your dealer.

I could see going to 65-70:1here in the winter. But when its summer and 35+ I would go back to 60:1

I was shocked to see the mixes the guys were using on the low rev bikes. But they don't have the stress and heat.

We only get rain in our summer

[norbertflyer]

I'm gathering information on here, which perhaps suggests that the majority of pilots don't stick to one oil brand for any length of time. Also guessing that this topic is being discussed due to the awful UK summer weather....

[s1buell_wl]

Have always used Motul 800 since i started, have never had any problems.

But have always mixed 50:1, why do you mix 70:1? is it due to Quality of oil

or does your engine recommend 70:1.

Miniplane is 60:1

check with your dealer.

I could see going to 65-70:1here in the winter. But when its summer and 35+ I would go back to 60:1

I was shocked to see the mixes the guys were using on the low rev bikes. But they don't have the stress and heat.

We only get rain in our summer

You UK'ers.....A little bit of clouds and you don't go out for a fly. Here put some of this in your hair to keep the curls in and you'll be ok to fly

This is the problem when you fly to the USA for all your training and bring the equipment back... you become a twat...... (love that word)

[pauldeakin]

...........

I could see going to 65-70:1here in the winter. But when its summer and 35+ I would go back to 60:1

I was shocked to see the mixes the guys were using on the low rev bikes. But they don't have the stress and heat.

Can anyone explain the reasoning behind using more oil in hot climates, I know it is normal to do this, many of the people I fly with in Thailand use between 25- 33:1, but I am thinking more oil = less fuel, and less fuel means it will run hotter????? I would have thought less oil but of a higher viscosity would be better in hot climates

[Guest]

...........

I could see going to 65-70:1here in the winter. But when its summer and 35+ I would go back to 60:1

I was shocked to see the mixes the guys were using on the low rev bikes. But they don't have the stress and heat.

Can anyone explain the reasoning behind using more oil in hot climates, I know it is normal to do this, many of the people I fly with in Thailand use between 25- 33:1, but I am thinking more oil = less fuel, and less fuel means it will run hotter????? I would have thought less oil but of a higher viscosity would be better in hot climates

I think you need to consider that the oil is also fuel when mixed and as such, there is no less fuel.

In other words the mixture of air and 'liquid' is still the same.

SW

[Steve]

The oil doesn't ignite with the petrol so the burn would be leaner and hotter? Wouldn't it? ...

I always thought the oil burnt as a consequence of the petrol igniting, I am beginning to realise that I know nothing.

Edited July 5, 2012 by Guest

[Hemberg]

What about adding injection cleaner into the mix? I read about this on the miniplane forum.

[dede2008]

I use Motul 710 happily, and I think it is a better choice over Motul 800 for our use.

A quote from a bike forum:

Motul 710 has a much lower flash point than Motul 800, which makes the ideal oil if you are doing slow speed technical riding as the bike is not running in the higher RPM range for long periods resulting in lower engine combustion temps being reached. The excess oil is therefor burnt up more efficiently which prevents carbon build and excess oil been blown through the exhaust.

Motul 800 is made for racing as it requires higher temps directly related to higher speeds and extended high RPM, you need a oil that does not burn up to quickly in this case, to put racing into perspective a rider like Lawrence Mahony rides full taps so Motul 800 would work better for him. Another example where Motul 800 will work at its best is high speed desert racing like the Dakar.