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Which oil??????


Fly_mow

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Hi all.

Ive got a pap Ross 125. Any one suggest The best 2 stroke oil to use. Been reccomended castrol racing oil but having reall problems finding it local to me as all motorbike shops say they having trouble with suppliers on castrol! Gearing up fr my first flight soon so haven't got time to wait for it mail order. Thanks.

Stu

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I always used to buy Castrol TTS, cost 10 to 11€ a litre.

I then found a fully synthetic oil in the gardening section aimed at agricultural equipment.

It's called X-oil, meets all the required specs: API TC, JASO FD, ISO-L-EGD and costs €13.28 for 2 litres.

At the moment though I am buying Extralub 100% synthetic because the supermarket have mis priced it on the shelf at under the price of the semi-synth. €8 for 2 litres (what a skinflint 8) )

Cheers,

Alan

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interesting this one Simonini say in their handbook not to use TTS......I always used it with the Ros engined pap..........they say ONLY use a semi synthetic.....with their engines or they may not cover you for any warranty issues...

Ps ( I do know the answer ) :? but I am seeing if anybody else also knows :?::wink::wink::P

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Thanks peeps. Haven't looked in halfords. Have tried all the. Motorbike shops near me but must admit I try to avoid halfords if I can. Thieving ba****ds!!! So it's basically a case of fully synthetic high quality oil. Will get it from halfords if need be :x After all my baby is worth it!

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  • 4 weeks later...

I use Stihl 2-stroke chainsaw oil, works a treat for me :D ive read other people also use this too. After all, chain saws rev like mad so it must be good stuff.

I have read people also like the 100ml shots Stihl do as they can mix it straight into a 5L canister but I use 150ml per 5L so I buy bigger bottles :)

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  • 2 months later...

Hi Stu! I come from the karting world and as a kart mechanic, I do recommend you to use the very best oil (as well as petrol. I only buy super unleaded) you can afford. I use only Putoline RS 959. It is expensive at £19.95 for one litre but in the end, you get what you pay for. It is designed for GP bikes, which rev like hell. This particular oil also has additives in its formulation. Putoline has an extensive range of 2T oil. No doubt that Castrol is also very good (I would go for fully synthetic but it wouldn't harm to contact the manufacturer of your engine and listen to what they recommend as the best option. Very near you, there is the Tilbury Kart Track and if they are still operating, they should have a few different makes of good oil for sale there. Whatever you decide, I wish you good luck and lots of flights. Take care! Cesar.

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It is very easy for someone, or a manufacturer to recommend that you get the best most expensive oil, but I do wonder if a lesser oil would do the same job.

I realise that different oils use different additives but I do not have a good enough understanding of this, so as long as it is 100% synthetic and it meets the JASO FD spec, then it is good enough for me.

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I like your thinking. I'm using fully synthetic at the min which I had left over from a previous toy but next time I buy some It will be of good quality but nothing to extreme I think. Very easy to buy the best of everything available but it soon ads up and spoils the best thing about paramotring ................

It's affordable to the average person!!! But not to cheap so it ends up costing me a motor!

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I am using this premixed gasoline /oil for years with only good experiences. It is premixed with 2% fully synthetic oil it can be stored premixed for at least 3 years it does not smell like regular gas (inside your car or luggage compartment) if spilled it does not attack rubber etc in the same way as regular gasoline. It leaves a minimum carbon deposits and the sylinder always looks great (no small scratces etc inside) P.S. I do not sell this product or have any comersial interest in it.

http://www.aspen.se/Aspen_%28eng%29/Consumer

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I am using this premixed gasoline /oil for years with only good experiences. It is premixed with 2% fully synthetic oil it can be stored premixed for at least 3 years it does not smell like regular gas (inside your car or luggage compartment) if spilled it does not attack rubber etc in the same way as regular gasoline. It leaves a minimum carbon deposits and the sylinder always looks great (no small scratces etc inside) P.S. I do not sell this product or have any comersial interest in it.

http://www.aspen.se/Aspen_%28eng%29/Consumer

Never even heard of that company, although they do have a UK distributor!

Interesting how they state a 3 year shelf life??

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interesting this one Simonini say in their handbook not to use TTS......I always used it with the Ros engined pap..........they say ONLY use a semi synthetic.....with their engines or they may not cover you for any warranty issues...

Ps ( I do know the answer ) :? but I am seeing if anybody else also knows :?::wink::wink::P

OK, I'd be interested in the full explanation .....

Just had an engine fully rebuilt (under warranty after 18 months) and several emails with Paolo Simonini about the type of oil used. His explanation was TTS (and some other synthetics) cause excessive deposits which caused high cylinder head temps and other problems ..... although it was difficult to get the exact technical reasons due to language differences.

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A Good Read

The truth about 2-stroke oil

Edit 0 0 4…

Many a times when you read on online forums or talk to fellow motorcyclist/scooterist, you will find that there is general idea that synthetic is better than mineral (non-synthetic) oil. Why? because as people claim, it gives more power, and is smoother, whatever. Bullocks.

The truth is that synthetic may or may not always be better than non-synthetic oils. For a clearer picture, one should look at the performance quality classification label on the bottle. I shall refer to the Japanese JASO standard as it is most frequently used.

The following excerpt is from wikipedia on the JASO standards:

[begin quote]

JASO FC is a performance quality classification for two stroke engine oil, for engines of Japanese origin.

Oils are granted the JASO FC certification by the Japanese Automotive Standards Organization, under the test sequence M345. JASO FC is the highest rating for 2-stroke oils. JASO FC oils leave little deposits and create very little smoke. They also pass lubricant and detergent tests. A JASO FC oil will have a rectangular seal. In the upper quarter of the rectangle will be a serial number and the lower three quarters will just have the letters M.

Again, there is an official JASO seal if the oil has been independently tested. The seal is a rectangle; in the upper quarter of the rectangle will be a serial number, and the lower three quarters will just have the letters MA. JASO FC -has now been superseded as the highest rating by JASO FD.

JASO FA – original spec established regulating lubricity, detergency, initial torque, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking.

JASO FB – increased lubricity, detergency, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking requirements over FA.

JASO FC – lubricity and initial torque requirements same as FB, however far higher detergency, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking requirements over FB.

JASO FD - same as FC with far higher detergency requirement.

[end quote]

(NOTE: JASO FC IS HIGHER THAN JASO FB. FD IS HIGHER THAN FC AND SO ON.)

To explain what i mean by "synthetic may not ALWAYS be better than non-synthetic" i am going to compare two brands of 2 stroke oil; Castrol and Mobil.

Castrol's "Activ 2t" ($6 from LAB) a non-synthetic 2 stroke oil is rated at JASO FC. On the other hand, mobile's top of the range oil "Mobil 1 racing 2t" ($10 from Ahjoo) which is FULLY-SYNTHETIC is also rated at JASO FC. WHY??? Isn't synthetic suppose to be better???

Now, compare that with Castrol's SEMI-synthetic oil "Castrol Power 1 2t" ($8 from LAB) which is rated at a higher JASO FD.

People usually think that synthetic oils are better than non-synthetic or semi-synthetic oil. That is true only to a certain extent. Because synthetic oils cost more to make and are more expensive. They are usually engineered to pass a higher JASO rating. Whereas mineral oils are cheaper to make and therefore engineered for a lower JASO standard as the producer's idea is that people who want mineral oil want it cheap and therefore don't really care about high protective qualities of the oil anyway.

the point i am trying to make here from my examples above, is that it is not a just a matter of Synthetic vs Non-synthetic. A non-synthetic or semi-synthetic oil may be lower, equal or higher in its protective, lubricity and detergency qualities than a fully-synthetic oil. I am not saying the a non-synthetic formula is better than a synthetic one. It depends. So before you decide on the next bottle of 2t, look at the labels.

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I had a problem when I came to Brazil (could not read anything). So I need to understand the ratings

I run FC

DSC00492.JPG

It`s all on the label!

Yes JASO FD or ISO-L-EDG on the label and who cares if its mineral, semi or Full synth. Just mix it up and worry about the great flight your about to have!

They are both equal (synth and mineral) depending on the quality thus high or low rating.

Cheers hopes this helps take away all the guess work.

Edited by Guest
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Here is a bit more info and the ISO's (you guys might run into these)

Specifications for Two Stroke Oil

NMMA TC-W3

– two cycle water-cooled, third generation. TC-W3 obsoletes TC-W & TC-WII. Oils with this spec do not use metal based additives, and are ashless.

This is an outboard specific spec

.

API TC

– only API spec established for two cycle engines. It regulates lubricity, detergency, ashcontent & pre-ignition. Oils with this spec are typically using metal based, ash producing additives.

JASO FA

– original spec established regulating lubricity, detergency, initial torque, exhaust smokeand exhaust system blocking.

JASO FB

– increased lubricity, detergency, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking requirements over FA.

JASO FC

– lubricity and initial torque requirements same as FB, however far higher detergency,exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking requirements over FB.

JASO FD

- same as FC with far higher detergency requirement.

ISO-L-EGB

– same tests and requirements as JASO FB.

ISO-L-EGC

– same tests and slightly higher detergency requirements (piston varnish) as JASO FC.

ISO-L-EGD

– same tests and requirements as JASO FD.

API JASO ISO

FA

Good

FB EGB

Better

TC FC EGC

Best

FD EGD

National Marine Manufacturers Association (NMMA) is based in the USA.

American Petroleum Institute (API) is based in the USA.

Japanese Automobile Standards Organization (JASO) is based in Japan.

International Standards Organization (ISO) is based in Europe.

These specs are established by different governing bodies located in various parts of the world.They all serve the same purpose; to give consumers a quantifiable way to measure the quality of 2stroke oil.

What does all this mean for your snowmobile, dirt bike or PWC?

Most OEM 2 stroke oils fall in either the JASO FB/ISO-L-EGB (Good) or JASO FC/ISO-L-EGC/API TC(Better) category, although the container and the owners manual will never actually list an oil spec.OEM’s prefer just to recommend their private label product and tell you there is no knownequivalent. It is easy not to have a “known” equivalent if you do not look for one.The toughest spec currently obtainable for two stroke oil is JASO FD/ISO-L-EGD. Any oil listing anJASO FD/ISO-L-EGD rating is preferred for a snowmobile, dirt bike or PWC. Common sense should tell you, using an oil (including OEM oil) that does not list a rating usually means it does not obtain these ratings, otherwise why would they not want to list on their produc

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Yes, already know about JASO / API standards, lubricity, viscosity etc. Curious to know exactly why TTS is considered harmful to Simonini engines yet works perfectly well in others. Most paramotors run at similar RPM and temperature ranges therefore do not need to cope with high rpm (like karts) or extreme temperatures (like snowmobiles).

As for full or semi synthetic base esters, my understanding is semi can withstand being premixed with fuel for longer periods than full synthetic .... ?

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All I've ever seen about TTS was reported gelling after sitting for a long time and people complained about carbon build up with TTS

e.g

"Amsoil. In my own experience with it burns a lot cleaner than Castrol tts. I was

getting a lot of carbon built up in my MZ34 so I tried Amsoil Dominator and was

impressed with it"

"I used TTS for the first year of flying. I found the oil to "jell" and cause

motor outs and also plug the idle jet on a bing carburator.

I have also found it not to stay blended with gasoline on extended "sits" in the

can."

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Thanks for the info on FA - FD, quite interesting.

Just a note for Castrol TTS/Power 1: I've only ever used this oil in my low revving Konig ppg since 1998 and I've flown 960 gps hours with this engine (Ignoring ground running), without any maintenance on the engine at all. I have swapped a Bing carb though due to butterfly barrel wear. Compression/Power/thrust/reliability all A1 since I bought it and no change.

Richard

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