si_morts Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 Hi everyone I want to start paramotoring but its pretty expensive. I came across this amazing deal at manchester paragliders, all the kit for £3499 and thought it must be too good to be true! Can anyone help with the following questions....... 1 Is the paratoys wing any good and can I free fly it? 2 Is the blackhawk mz 100 engine reliable ( yeah, as a biker I know 2 strokes will go pop eventualy ) i think there should be enough thrust as im 76Kg naked- ha ha thats a grim thought! I dont mind not having the best engine and wing as im just starting and will use the spare cash to buy a reserve and get a better wing when I have gained some hours in a year or two. Any help would be appreciated. Great site by the way guys!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 re motor can't comment. re wing....not with a barge pole for free flying. This is an american made wing, 3 year old design, not certified by either european testing house (am unsure of any american certification will research for you). On that basis alone I would not recommend buying. But more than that this manufacturer has only made this one design as far as I can tell. So I dont see tham as "expert" wing makers. For calm paramotoring it may be perfectly OK, but the top speed is only 47 kmph and at that speed the sink rate is probably 2.5 m/s and the glide is estimated at 7.6 to 1 (not that good these days). The manufacturer does not supply a "polar curve" (always a bad sign) which would tell you what to expect the sink rate to be but this is a slow, old uncertified wing. i would not like to use it "on the hill". The main problem is that its behaviour in collapse recovery and other extreme situations is not tested by any of the system we know about so it is an unknown quantity in that respect. Also, if you are flying under BHPA license your insurance would be invalid on an uncertified wing and you would not be welcome at BHPA clubs if they knew that. I dont know what the situation re insurance would be flying an uncertified with On-Risk insurance but I expect the next post or two will tell us. All you who fly these wings please remember I am looking at this from a free-flying perpsective which was part of the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 "Also, if you are flying under BHPA license your insurance would be invalid on an uncertified wing and you would not be welcome at BHPA clubs if they knew that. I dont know what the situation re insurance would be flying an uncertified with On-Risk insurance but I expect the next post or two will tell us." On Risk Will cover you as long as you have the air time to justify an un-rated wing. If your under a BHPA licence for your PPG then all I can say is they will spit at you if you tried to claim with this wing. I have only seen one and the first thing I noticed was the lack of stitching and the general poor quality of everything!! I got the feeling that the wing had been made in China for the least amount of expense and that they were using it as a 'give away' for there motors. which for the money if looked at this way is a rip off. I would never ever in a million years fly a wing that 'looked' so badly made (The one I saw would have failed my pre flight check) , I don't even care what it flies like and will not find out until the standards of manufacture come a lot closer to that of your conventional supplers who price there kit to maintain this quality/ standard. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
si_morts Posted January 14, 2008 Author Share Posted January 14, 2008 (edited) "Also, if you are flying under BHPA license your insurance would be invalid on an uncertified wing and you would not be welcome at BHPA clubs if they knew that.I dont know what the situation re insurance would be flying an uncertified with On-Risk insurance but I expect the next post or two will tell us." On Risk Will cover you as long as you have the air time to justify an un-rated wing. If your under a BHPA licence for your PPG then all I can say is they will spit at you if you tried to claim with this wing. I have only seen one and the first thing I noticed was the lack of stitching and the general poor quality of everything!! I got the feeling that the wing had been made in China for the least amount of expense and that they were using it as a 'give away' for there motors. which for the money if looked at this way is a rip off. I would never ever in a million years fly a wing that 'looked' so badly made (The one I saw would have failed my pre flight check) , I don't even care what it flies like and will not find out until the standards of manufacture come a lot closer to that of your conventional supplers who price there kit to maintain this quality/ standard. SW Thanks guys, having never seen the wing close up I wouldn't have known about the build quality, I love those little chinese guys but I wouldn't want to buy a paraglider from them I have looked on the american website and they say the size 28 wing is AFNOR rated beginner and these are the sink rates etc- im afraid they dont mean much to me at the moment though! +7.8% glide ratio min sink 1.10 to 1.20 Min speed 22 to 24 (km/h) max speed 36 to (38km/h) top speed 46 to (48km/h) Guess I may have to look elsewhere the huh? Any suggestions for a reasonable priced wing that I could possibly free fly and a reasonable engine? Thanx Edited January 15, 2008 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 Go Second hand! You can get some top notch close to new kit second hand! (but get it from here or another good source so you know its past) Take a look in the for sale at the wings that are there. You dont HAVE to buy new but you do have to buy from a trusted source. All selling on this site can be trusted, we are a good bunch us lot you know!. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 AFNOR testing was phased out two years ago (I think) so it may be that the 28 got tested but I can find no evidence that it did. I had not seen one up close as Simon has, but am not in the least surprised to learn that it is a "knock up" to go with the motors. A second hand low hours parajet and second hand paraglider would cost about what you are considering as a bargain, Would you like me to put a deal together for you to look at? Declaration of interest here ..... I have one for sale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryW Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 Hi Si Mort's, As Simon W suggested take a look at the wings for sale on this forum, look at the Ozone Mojo. This is a Paragliding and certified Paramotoring wing. A reserve is also included in sale with this wing. Yes!! it's my wing. PM me if you need more details. Cheers Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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