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Revo2 possibly the best wing today for 99% of pilots ??


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The Paramania Revo2 is possibly the best wing for most average pilots I meet and see flying. What are your views?

When recommending wings I generally offer the KobraPPG Enjoy to complete beginners, pilots with low thrust to weight ratio, anyone who wants to take it steady. Reason it is EN/A rated and very easy to launch land ground handle etc.

Most popular wing I offer is the Paramania Revo2, this wing fits the majority of my customers, also easy to launch and full reflex for ambitious pilots wanting to go some distance and fly in varied conditions. EN/B rated and nice to fly.

Next up is the Fusion for those who know what they want. Has a great feel and although it is en/c rated the test sheet reads quite well getting mostly b's.

Back to the Revo2 whos main competition is usually the synthesis. Having flown both a fair bit I can say I prefer the Revo2 on paper and inflight. The revo2 is safer being en/b rated (yes this is important as a number of pilots land in the slower settings) (yes the en/b rating has gone when in reflex, but I think reflex concept has proven itself enough), more efficient, more responsive, easy to launch, slower to land, feels as though it has more reflex than the synth, shorter easier to push speedbar, longer trim range, right now the winner is revo2.

Which leads me to question, when is dudek replacing the synth? must be in the pipeline. Has anyone here bought a new synthesis recently? Dont get me wrong the synthesis is a great wing and would make an excellent used buy, as does the original revolution, things have moved on another notch. The synthesis has one trump card... a 34 meter. The original revolution did have a limited run of 36m.

What of the others? Apco, Ozone, airwave all have reflex wings. How much would you trust another manufacturers reflex profile to work correctly?

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I would like to get a Revo, but at 105kg, 29m isn't big enough.

I would really like a safer alternative to the synth.

Interestingly, a lightly loaded nucleon 34 has B ratings, better than the synth.

I've recently bought a synthesis 34. I really like it but have no other experience on other PPG wings so can't compare.

When I was looking to buy, the Synthesis got great reviews and feedback.

You comment on wanting a safer wing than the Synthesis, are you splitting hairs here or do you have a real concern here (should I be concerned? - I'm not at the moment).

Thanks

Stuart

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The Paramania Revo2 is possibly the best wing for most average pilots I meet and see flying. What are your views?

I've posted a few comments on previous threads, but since you ask :

PRO's

Great colour scheme / graphics. CLE leading edge is great for laying out, easy inflation & packing - much better than standard mylars. Long trimmer range (70%) makes the speed bar redundant for most pilots & gives good top speed. Easy to launch even in nil wind despite not having split A risers. Great to fly on slow trim with brakes. Good pitch stability. Good communication / service from the Paramania team (when they are not flying). Good passive safety (it kept flying despite one incident from torque twist in a gust that might have stalled or collapsed other wings).

CON's

Trimmers difficult to adjust with one hand. Tip steering ineffective and sluggish, only producing wide turns no matter how much you pull as it only works on the outer stabilo to shorten the wing. Having to keep replacing the TST handles on the velcro is a pain. Prussic knot on tip steering has many detractors and is not ideal - the idea that owners should have to stitch it up themselves is laughable. Horrendous roll damping in turbulence and more prone to tip tucks than most other wings I've flown - seems to be made worse by the stiffener in the outer panel. Not very efficient in reflex mode - requires higher rpm and more fuel than other wings to maintain level flight. Poor sink rate and glide ratio. Aftersales support varied from excellent to poor, as individually they are great pilots & people, notoffice staff.

My wing arrived direct from Paramania with no warranty / inspection card or manual. It came with 2 lines from the A cascade passing through the B cascade - potentially fatal but spotted pre-flight and required re-routing the lines from the maillons up. It also arrived with brake lengths 28cm too long (making for an interesting landing experience) - but no manual or line length table to check them against. Trimmers suffered from slipping after only 10 hours or so, although new updated & modified risers were sent without hassle. Same with the adjustable brake handles slipping open - I refused to hand stitch mine so new ones were sent straight away.

Biggest issue for me was the ludicrous 90 - 220 kg weight range. As per 'notch's post above, I was 105kg (160kg all up) and the 29m was too small - probably causing the issues with sink rate and economy.

The Nucleon 34 has far superior steering & handling (although the ALC balls can make the risers too fussy for some) with slightly faster speed (despite the bigger size) and better economy. Downside of the Nucleon is the colour scheme is less exciting, it is heavier and more difficult to reverse launch, and the fabric is not crispy & water repellent like the Revo 2. Despite the higher AR and cell count, the Nucleon handles turbulence better and feels more solid in flight (extra weight though from all the internal reinforcement).

What of the others? Apco, Ozone, airwave all have reflex wings. How much would you trust another manufacturers reflex profile to work correctly?

You compare the Revo2 to the Sythesis which is probably correct, but I've never really rated that wing too highly as the Nucleon does everything just that little bit better than the Synthesis, and is safer on paper too. Dudek wings are probably the benchmark for paramotoring up till now, although Ozone & Apco make some fantastic wings and I'm sure I'd be happy with the Speedster, Force (or even a Fusion) if I was slightly lighter. Some of the numbers (including how much "reflex" a wing has) are less important than how it feels to fly, and how usable it is in all trims and conditions.

The original Revo was quite literally a "revolution", and although there are some technical improvements in the Revo2 I can't help feeling it is a step sideways rather than forwards overall.

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You comment on wanting a safer wing than the Synthesis, are you splitting hairs here or do you have a real concern here (should I be concerned? - I'm not at the moment).

No No the synthesis is bomb proof, a little dull but that goes in hand with feeling safe. Full slow en/c vs en/b reactions to collapse etc puts the revo2 ahead.

aquatix. Maybe you should not buy direct and purchase through your nearest dealer. I would have been asking what motor you are flying as well as your weight and a whole bunch of other questions relating to your flying experience. Given that I would probably said you are going to find the revo2 29 a little thristy at your weight motor combination.

size for size the synthesis is definitely the more un-economical, I know I owned a 29 sythn for some time. the 34 feels like a different wing. As a dealer I would say to you the huge weight range is absolute max for trike use as take off and landings would be fast unless the pilot is very experienced and knows what they want / expect from a glider.

at 87kg pilot weight, I prefer the Fusion 29 and the Revo2 26. (synth 29, reaction 29 of old)

nucleon is for more experienced pilots over the synthesis, but I understand the point about safety rating scores.

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aquatix. Maybe you should not buy direct and purchase through your nearest dealer.

Hi Vince, I did .... but after waiting 6 weeks for delivery Paramania sent the wrong colour to the dealer :( then sent mine direct from factory. I still maintain it should have been safety checked there, post production. Every other wing I've bougt has come with a signed inspection card.

I totally agree that people should discuss their requirements first and build a good relationship to trust their local dealer - not marketing hype or performance data. I did have several discussions with Pascal and Mike C-J prior to purchase, along with Deano & Emilia afterwards. Maybe part of the problem was that mine was an early order, before any demo's arrived in UK, but I guess someone has to be a guinea pig ! :wink: I recckon it takes a minimum of 6 months after release before there is enough feedback to gauge the owners opinions, as demo's are rarely available in my weight range.

On the weight range subject, Paramania should have made it clear that 220kg is only for trike use, and published a more realistic weight range. I think the 29 is probably ideal within its certified range of 90-140kg, but much more than that and the sink rate / economy suffers - with little benefit in terms of speed or manoeverability.

I'm not saying the Revo2 is a bad wing (hence the balanced review) but I know a few other people who also sold theirs within 6 months (at substantial loss) so would disagree that it is the best wing today for 99% of pilots.

Certainly for me the Nucleon meets every requirement - I just wish they had used a water repellant coating on the fabric - and I'm glad the new Dudek Hadron isn't going to be available in my size to tempt me !! :lol:

Alan

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Has the Revo2 got the same tip steering system as the fusion :?:

(You know the one that you tie a knot to attatch the tip steer brake handles)

that then can slide down and get caught in your prop :?::evil:

Yes - the Prussic Knot is great for its intended use on climbing ropes, but not ideal on the smooth, coated small diameter lines on a paraglider. It works (just) but the loops around the stabilo line are too close to the limit that the TST line can bend around. Saying that, once pulled tight mine never slipped - although it was always a concern.

Have you not seen their stitch-up video (with demo on normal rope) ?? :wink:

[youtubevideo]

[/youtubevideo] Edited by Guest
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Hi Vince, I have 70 hours ppg and 50 hours pg, the last 20 hours on my Nucleon. I find it is the best wing so far, previous wings being Apco Thrust, Apco Fiesta, Apco Sentra and a Falhawk Atoll. My question is regarding your mention of the Nucleon for more experienced pilots, could you give me an example of when/how it might bite where a Synthesis or Revo for example wouldnt?

Cheers

Nige

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Agreed with Vince that the Nuke and the Fusion are both (as manufacturers state) not for beginners due to the fact that they could be described as being more twitchy. More responsive as a result of less brake travel.

Great fun when you have had 40-50 hours experience but not for beginners.

As for Synth vs Revo2, the same thing applies for Nuke vs Fusion...

If you watch Paramania wings flying in more gusty conditions vs Dudek wings, you will see a LOT more flexing and movement in the Paramania wings. Not so much fun, especially on a long XC.

That said...The Synth and Nuke are slightly harder to initially launch. They need a lot more effort on the A's to get them up over your head as they like to hang back.

What would I prefer a complete novice to have? Well if they are going to go places, they probably want a Reflex wing, or I would suggest a slower but easier wing like the Dudek Nemo Moto.

But for the stability in flight for a beginner, the Synth trumps the Revolution 2. You just have to learn the correct launch technique.

Just my 2 cents.

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Amusingly, I did email Paramania some time after I started full-time as an Instructor to enquire about being a dealer, but they declined to reply. Shame.

However, that politics aside, I fly a Paramania Fusion which I love. I like the responsiveness when I am throwing it around. When it wears out, I might replace it with a Nucleon, but I don't know yet.

Anyone who has flown a Fusion and a Nucleon one after the other will agree that although the Fusion launches easier, it does flex a lot more in turbulence (a sort of concertina effect, if you watch from the ground). I do like the Revo2, but although the Synth is a little harder to launch than the Revo2, the Synth is more solid in flight.

So as an instructor, I would be less inclined to put a student on a first flight on a Synth, (Like I said earlier, I'd probably use a Nemo, which is easier to launch, is EN A rated, but does not have any reflex), but I would probably recommend that they have a Synth over a Revo if they wanted a more solid Reflex wing.

If I had Revo2's in the school, I'd possibly use those for first flights as they launch easily, but as a preference, I'd probably use the GoFly instead. (It's a school wing, after all).

In fact I do currently use an old Go Fly and I am about to order a Nemo to replace it (due to it's age)...Hope that clarifies my standing. :wink:

My views are opinions and are not reflective of my suppliers (even if those ever risk annoying my supplier). Hopefully my suppliers would understand an opinion based on experience.

All the best. 8)

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yes I remember the Synth being rock solid. I didn't notice or feel the revo2 concertina like the old revolution did, but I have spent the past couple of years on a Fusion. I was lower hours when I used to fly synth so would have been calmer air. I was very pleased with how the rev2 handled the rough stuff, rougher than I would normally fly in and im sure the synth would cope fine to. It was inflight feeling I was more impressed with on the revo2 over the synth. It still had progressive brakes but they felt lighter and more pleasing. I would expect a detuned nuke soon to replace current syth.

What is good that what ever reflex wing you own, the current crop of wings since the action are all very good in there own way so be pleased if your a reflex owner/fan and go flying.

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I'm a newish pilot, CP at present. I bought a Revo2 at the end of last year from research on the web as I hadn't met anyone who owned one. I have little with which to compare other than the basic paragliding wings I did my early training on. From my point of view, I enjoy flying the Revo2 but am paranoid in the extreme about the prussic knot which I check all the time. The other thing I have issue with is the trimmer adjustment which is so hard to do that I just set it for the flight and leave it alone (usually on slowish trim), it's stupidly difficult to adjust in flight, at least for me.

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I enjoy flying the Revo2 but am paranoid in the extreme about the prussic knot which I check all the time. The other thing I have issue with is the trimmer adjustment which is so hard to do that I just set it for the flight and leave it alone (usually on slowish trim), it's stupidly difficult to adjust in flight, at least for me.

Hi Stevie

Paranoia can wreck an otherwise perfectly enjoyable flight so I hope this has the result of putting your mind at ease. I fly a Revo1 with the prussic knot on the tip steering and although I always include it in the pre-flight check, it has never come loose even though I've not stitched it.

The trimmers sometimes slip a bit just after they've been adjusted but in my opinion if you have plenty of altitude in hand so that you don't feel rushed then spending a little while calmly setting them won't be a problem, even if they are uneven for a few seconds.

I have huge confidence in my wing which has always brought me home safely even when I've taken off in less than perfect air when I've wished that I'd stayed on the ground!

Fly safe and most of all - Enjoy!

Ian.

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Cheers Ian, I appreciate your comments. Using prussic knots in one of my other sports I know how easily they can release their grip, hence the paranoia; it's good to hear that you've had no problems.

The trimmers I find are immensely stiff to adjust when flying, it's a full on two-handed effort with little finesse. Perhaps more experience would help. Thanks again.

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Amusingly, I did email Paramania some time after I started full-time as an Instructor to enquire about being a dealer, but they declined to reply. Shame.

However, that politics aside, I fly a Paramania Fusion which I love. I like the responsiveness when I am throwing it around. When it wears out, I might replace it with a Nucleon, but I don't know yet.

Anyone who has flown a Fusion and a Nucleon one after the other will agree that although the Fusion launches easier, it does flex a lot more in turbulence (a sort of concertina effect, if you watch from the ground). I do like the Revo2, but although the Synth is a little harder to launch than the Revo2, the Synth is more solid in flight.

So as an instructor, I would be less inclined to put a student on a first flight on a Synth, (Like I said earlier, I'd probably use a Nemo, which is easier to launch, is EN A rated, but does not have any reflex), but I would probably recommend that they have a Synth over a Revo if they wanted a more solid Reflex wing.

If I had Revo2's in the school, I'd possibly use those for first flights as they launch easily, but as a preference, I'd probably use the GoFly instead. (It's a school wing, after all).

In fact I do currently use an old Go Fly and I am about to order a Nemo to replace it (due to it's age)...Hope that clarifies my standing. :wink:

My views are opinions and are not reflective of my suppliers (even if those ever risk annoying my supplier). Hopefully my suppliers would understand an opinion based on experience.

All the best. 8)

So you are a Dudek dealer and not a Paramania dealer then?

Pete

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Pay attention 007. :roll:

I thought I made it clear, but let me clarify that I am indeed a Dudek dealer but I fly and train with Paramania wings as well. My opinion shared beforehand is based upon my experience not which suppliers I use.

I like the Paramania wings as much as the Dudek wings for different reasons and I have no problems mentioning the aspects of the Dudek wings that I am not so keen on. Manufacturers will never improve if they don't get feedback from pilots and Instructors.

I know for a fact that the manufacturers & suppliers sometimes watch these forums and I knows some of them actually respect us having independent views. If I felt I couldn't share a viewpoint about a wing because my supplier might not like it, I probably wouldn't sell those wings.

Anyway...less stirring Mr B and how about you give an opinion? ;)

Love you xx :mrgreen:

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Not stirring Steve just clarifying what wings you sell thats all. :|

AS far as commenting I have A Fusion, Reaction, and a synth Cabrio so could not comment on any others as I do not think you can get a fair judgment from a few quick flights :?

And its 001 and a half thank you :D

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