Hemberg Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Hi there Yesterday I had an incident with my pap pa 125. During flight the muffler fell off the engine. The condition of the motor is good in general and I treat it well. I had taken the gearbox apart not long ago to fix the clutch and oil in the gear box. During that time I polished up the muffler and didn't notice anything strange. flytime between that and this incident was less then an hour airtime. I didn't do a precheck just before flight to see if anything was broken but even if I did I'm not that sure that I would have noticed anything strange because that metall-strap broke clean off. I don't know, maybe I would have seen something maybe not. It is my responsibility to make sure that things doesn't fall off but I do think that it should have been better secured on the motor in case something like this happen. I'm glad it landed on the grass instead in someones head. which could have happen since I do fly over buildings. I'm am very surprised though that my propeller only got a tiny scratch! [youtubevideo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tihE-axyeZE[/youtubevideo] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyfreefly Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 This is not an isolated case there have been quite a few of the Pa engined paramotors that have lost their mufflers during flight....I was one of them But in my case it was one of many faults that I had with my brand new Pap Pa 125 other problems included air filter bracket breaking, prop hitting the frame all the time when going from nil throttle to full throttle , gearbox fitted with the wrong bolts in 11hrs of flying on my new paramotor I had 4 forced landings and other damage that I managed to limp home with.... I eventually got my money back after I contacted trading standards and they suggested that I should recieve a full refund due to the goods not being fit for purpose..... the Dealer did the honourable thing and gave me my money back I have still got my Pap ros unit and its brilliant.....we will never be parted there have been mods to most of the faults, including the exhaust falling off....but the mod included a backup wire to be fitted in the wrong place????? and the bracket going around the muffler was increased in thickness.. .the old one on the ros had a loop to put a backup wire on the Pa hasnt this link is to the Pap site where you can find the list to some of the mods http://www.papteam.com/noticias_in.php? ... oticia=114 and here is the exhaust mod....please note if you do this mod the way they suggest it will still hit the prop if the bracket fails as yours has (and mine ) http://www.papteam.com/noticias_in.php? ... oticia=111 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemberg Posted June 28, 2011 Author Share Posted June 28, 2011 Thanks for the info garyfreefly, I appreciate it. I'm glad we have forums to share experiences in but I wish we had a better organisation worldwide to point out the errors on current paramotors and other equipment. The magazines doesn't do that. It pisses me off that neither my dealer nor the manufacturer told me about this issue, since it was already known. And I'm going to let them know that. I could potentially have caused a major accident. The muffler is quite heavy. I knew about the screws and changed them, saw that by pure coincident on the website. Agree that the mod they present isn't good enough, I'll see what I can do. Is the exhaust different on the ros? the motors look similiar but I haven't taken a close look at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyfreefly Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 the muffler on the Pa only has a welded on loop on the side that connects to the rubber connector from the downpipe.... the Ros has a loop of steel welded on at both ends of the muffler..... so you can put a backup wire on both ends....as you have found out when the exhaust bracket fails the muffler can swing into the prop even with the Pap mod done it needs a fixing on the other end I did this using a jubby clip as a ( Heath Robinson Fix ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notch Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Hemberg, I knew this was an issue on some of the early PA125's, but I thought the offenders had aluminium muffler brackets, not later stainless ones. Yours looks like it's stainless. Off to check my exhaust mount now. Thanks, -Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemberg Posted June 29, 2011 Author Share Posted June 29, 2011 Correct, mine is stainless steel. But I think they made a mistake when they mounted the metal strap that surrounds the muffler. At the bolt holding the strap together there i a one cm tall spacer. I think the idea is to have the straps brackets on each side of the spacer. That wasn't done on mine. Instead both ends of the strap is hold together at one point. If you see what I mean, mine is mounted like this: First the bolt then the spacer then one side of the strap then the other side of the strap then fastened with a nut into the exhaust That's going to stress the metal because of the vibrations so it's not a question if the strap breaks but when it does. instead it should probably have been: first the bolt. then one end of the strap then the 1 cm spacer then other side of the strap and fasten with nut into the exhaust. I might be wrong though, but that's what I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notch Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Hemberg, I guess that would mean shortening of the strap. I may try a small version of the rubber vibration mounts that hold the engine to the frame, if I can get a hold of some. Or just a stronger strap perhaps? How many hours has you motor done? Need to know how urgent this is Nick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyfreefly Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Not sure if you can see how the offending braket was fitted before it broke on my X machine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemberg Posted June 30, 2011 Author Share Posted June 30, 2011 notch Unfortunately I'm not completely sure about the hours, my hour meter is broken but it is in the 50 hours region. Personally I'm going to lock the muffler with two wires. One at the rubber ending as pap has on the new setup, the link garyfreefly gave in an earlier message in this thread shows how. And one extra wire around the muffler and through the holes on the backside of the strap. That should be enough to hold the muffler in place in case the strap breaks again. Something like that, we'll see when I get the parts to fix the motor. Haven't heard anything from pap or my dealer yet so I don't have the parts to fix it. garyfreefly, can't say on that picture how the strap is mounted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyfreefly Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Ok The video that you posted has the strap fitted the same way as mine was fitted which is the correct way according to Mr Pap..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemberg Posted June 30, 2011 Author Share Posted June 30, 2011 Oh, of course, the spacer is there to lower the muffler so it's in line with the exhaust, should have watched my own video Still think it's a poor way to mount though, the metal have to be quite strong to withstand all that vibration mounted like that. Stainless is brittle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notch Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 mmm, I have 40 hours, so failure is probably imminent. What do other PPG moturs use to secure the exhaust? Now that I think more about a rubber mount, I'm not confident it could withstand the heat. -N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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