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Newbie wing


alecsstefan

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Hi Davide - sorry, didn't mean to worry you :oops: - yes the collapses were witnessed while I was free flying, just to illustrate the air was most probably more active than where Nigel was motoring with his K2 wing. My point was that the K2 is a non-reflex PG wing so could easily have collapsed in the same way (in those conditions) but potentially with a much more violent recovery if being flown with trimmers out and overloaded by up to 33% from certified range (as has been suggested for PPG).

I totally agree with you about the Eden 4. I flew mine through the most active parts of that day without any drama - just a couple of minor tip tucks from one particularly vicious thermal - and it even carries on flying without incident with big induced collapses. Of course our loony Utah friend has faked his own 'evidence' to say this wing too is a death trap:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PPGTRUTH/message/15049

- and he chose to delete my comments even though I've flown it extensively in the UK, Alps, Turkey and Atlas mountains without any issue or concern ..... :roll:

Anyway, the point was Brian's collapse (the first video) happened around 6:30pm in air that was otherwise quite calm and 'hands off' paramotor friendly, yet he was still caught out despite over 15 years flying experience. A beginner could easily be duped into buying one of these "super safe" wings that are supposedly way better than anything else on the market - especially if they also buy into the indestructible paramotor guff that goes with it .... Flown outside the certified range and you have a recipe for disaster !

Salemanship and marketing tricks are one thing, but telling outright lies where safety is concerned (especially to beginners) is deplorable.

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Alan,

I also thought that you was PPGing that day so opologises for my error as I didn't see the youtube videos on here at the time.

UKPPG do not need to use salesmanship or marketing tricks with any of our range of products as we are the main importers or main dealers for most of the top brands of PPG companies so we do not push any one brand or model, it is solely down to our customers personal choice.

Other companies tend to be biased to one product or brand even though it may not be completely suitable for that particular individual / student.

You know how big we are as a PPG business in the UK and we offer all of our range of products to be readily available and personally tested on either the ground or in the air to obtain a thorough, unbiased, individual evaluation.

Then and only then do our customers make there final decisions based on our recommended engine / wing sizes and models etc, to best suit their own flying abilities / experience and future flying requirements. We also only quote factual information that we have been supplied / confirmed direct from our manufacturers, (excluding one) and / or from our own personal experiences.

Totaly agree with you that the Flattop is not indistructable, nothing is, but believe me when I say it is probably in the running for being one of the strongest on the current market. But then again Seeing is believing i suppose.

Anyway sorry to waffle, our K2 new stock has arrived when you are available to come down, so we are ready when you are and we really look forward to hearing your own version of your findings after your testing.

Best Regards

Nigel

PS: Don't forget your crash helmet. LOL !!!

PPS: Only joking it is a company policy on our UKPPG site at all times.

Keep our great sport deregulated....Think Safety First

posting.php?mode=quote&f=3&p=40428#

Hi Davide - sorry, didn't mean to worry you :oops: - yes the collapses were witnessed while I was free flying, just to illustrate the air was most probably more active than where Nigel was motoring with his K2 wing. My point was that the K2 is a non-reflex PG wing so could easily have collapsed in the same way (in those conditions) but potentially with a much more violent recovery if being flown with trimmers out and overloaded by up to 33% from certified range (as has been suggested for PPG).

I totally agree with you about the Eden 4. I flew mine through the most active parts of that day without any drama - just a couple of minor tip tucks from one particularly vicious thermal - and it even carries on flying without incident with big induced collapses. Of course our loony Utah friend has faked his own 'evidence' to say this wing too is a death trap:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PPGTRUTH/message/15049

- and he chose to delete my comments even though I've flown it extensively in the UK, Alps, Turkey and Atlas mountains without any issue or concern ..... :roll:

Anyway, the point was Brian's collapse (the first video) happened around 6:30pm in air that was otherwise quite calm and 'hands off' paramotor friendly, yet he was still caught out despite over 15 years flying experience. A beginner could easily be duped into buying one of these "super safe" wings that are supposedly way better than anything else on the market - especially if they also buy into the indestructible paramotor guff that goes with it .... Flown outside the certified range and you have a recipe for disaster !

Salemanship and marketing tricks are one thing, but telling outright lies where safety is concerned (especially to beginners) is deplorable.

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Hi Nigel,

You know the salesmanship comment wasn't aimed at you - just the loony across the pond who only touts one wing & motor as being 'super safe' whilst deriding every other brand as being dangerous death traps. That is bad for the sport in general, and misleading to beginners in particular. Such libelous unproven claims would be illegal in other forms of advertising but he has found an outlet in YouTube where his lies can go unchecked. Hopefully reasoned debate such as this helps provide some balance for all the people coming into the sport with inevitable questions about what wing & motor is best for them.

For the record I've benefitted from your knowledge and advice, and often recommended people to UKPPG for the wide range of brands and equipment you stock. I know you only sell products you would be happy to fly yourself, and what you think is suitable for any particular person.

I totally agree with you that the Flattop is one of the strongest frames available - along with Kobra, Bulldog, EC Extreme and others - they all have their pro's and cons making them suitable for some people but not others. Just like buying a car there is never going to be one 'best' model to suit everyone.

Same goes for the K2 - I've never suggested it is a bad or dangerous wing. It was designed for free flight and if I had flown it in the active air of the previous post I fully expect it would have behaved as well as my Eden 4. Even though it is an older design its lower aspect ratio with fewer, bigger cells, will be fairly collapse resistant and any tucks or collapses should come out quickly without drama. Dell's fake video comparison however claims the K2 is better than the Eden 4 in every aspect, which is a total crock of **** ! I'm sure you would agree.

Hope that clears things up to your satisfaction mate ? :wink: Some facts are undisputable, other stuff is just personal opinion and a bit of friendly forum banter.

Alan.

PS - of course I'll have my helmet but I was only planning on having a few flights - not being a crash test dummy !! :lol:

PPS - typical, your new stock has arrived just as the weather is turning crappy again after 2 almost perfect months ..... :(

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  • 3 weeks later...

Don't you just love it when someone pops up and their first 4 posts are plugging their products???

Yeah nice colour scheme for the wing and the motors look good too but shame you couldn't have come on here and introduced yourself first!

Ian.

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