neilc Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I was out ground handling my new Dudek Synth (34) yesterday afternoon, and the brake lines seem very long.......(don't know what it's like in the air yet as I havn't flown it.) Is it common for the brake lines to come long as standard, The brake lines on my old Revo seemed spot on from new. Neil.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Bring it with you for your next visit mate, I will sort it. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobra Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 my synth 29 appears to be about 4" longer than what they could be, (estimate by a mate who test flown it with approx 600 hrs under his belt on many wings) I was told it was for safety (no chance of stalling itfrom the factory?) my mate test flown it before I flew it and buried the brakes, he could not stall the wing. i have never altered it and put about 20 hrs on it so far with no flare issues, however I may shorten then about 2" as feel I could get a little more flare 2 other synths in the club both diff sizes appear to be the same, slightly longer than what you would expect. Be carefull shortening things just because you think they are too long, test fly first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_b Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Or leave them as they are and take a wrap for landing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timm9227 Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Hi Neil, Is your new Synth set up for high hang points? Could need shortening and missing out lower pulleys to suit low hang points. Mine came set up for low hang point and haven't had to touch a thing, love it to bits. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybound Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Guys take this as official from Dudek. The lines may appear long whilst ground handling and in flight on slow trims; this is because there needs to be slack for when the wing goes to fast trim. The Synthesis has a large trimmed speed range which is a benefit; the slight down side is the brake length as it needs to accommodate the increased movement of angle the wing goes through. The brakes have been tuned and test by the factory so moving outside the pre-marked datum’s is unnecessary. Any deflection of the trailing edge at speed is going to degrade its performance. If anyone is still unclear about this then please feel free to call me. Clive Dudek UK 07736553834 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilc Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 Hi Neil, Is your new Synth set up for high hang points? Could need shortening and missing out lower pulleys to suit low hang points. Mine came set up for low hang point and haven't had to touch a thing, love it to bits. Tim Hi Tim, My motor is a Parajet Macro, which has hangpoints at roughly just below shoulder level. Neil.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bholleran Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 Guys take this as official from Dudek. The lines may appear long whilst ground handling and in flight on slow trims; this is because there needs to be slack for when the wing goes to fast trim. The Synthesis has a large trimmed speed range which is a benefit; the slight down side is the brake length as it needs to accommodate the increased movement of angle the wing goes through. The brakes have been tuned and test by the factory so moving outside the pre-marked datum’s is unnecessary. Any deflection of the trailing edge at speed is going to degrade its performance. If anyone is still unclear about this then please feel free to call me. Clive Dudek UK 07736553834 Does this also apply to the nucleon? The reason I ask is I have flown me Nucleon for the first time yesterday, and it was a delight to fly, but when I came in to land in almost nil wind I could not get enough of a flare even with a wrap to land on my feet. I was flying on full slow trim and assumed that on full slow I should still be able to get a good flare. I assume that this would only be worse if I had the motor on due to the extra weight. What are the recommended brake lengths for both low and high hang point machines? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgy Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 hi barry where did you fly from (hambrook) if so sorry we missed you but we did a long xc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bholleran Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 Hi Mark, No it was at a place near Gatzia in Greece. I am still there so I am going to experiment a bit more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquatix Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 Hi Barry, your Nucleon is set up correctly for a low hang point (although brake line lengths are in the manual to check). Brake pressure is light with a long travel, so it is easy for your hands to creep down during final approach. If you keep the handles at the pulleys until you start your round out / flare there should be plenty of energy to bleed off speed and even climb slightly before a slow one step landing - even in nil wind. I don't know anyone (out of 10 Nucleon pilots) who needs to take a wrap - it is all just timing which I'm sure you will nail after a couple more flights (my first landing wasn't perfect but the second was !) Being a lazy git I just use slow trim for easy landings, although neutral or higher will have more speed but more energy for flaring off. Can you get anyone to film your landing and maybe post it up ? I'm currently editing a video with lots of take offs & landings from our field, and although each person does it slightly differently it might help to compare with yours. Have fun - and safe landings ! Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bholleran Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 Hi Alan, Thanks for the reply, I have never had to take a wrap on any paraglider I have owned and the speed that you would come in to land seemed to be considerably slower on my paragliders than the Nucleon on full slow trim. I assume that there must be a slightly different technique. What height would you normally start to flare from assuming that the brakes were in the fully parked position? I also assume that the flare would go from fully up to fully down quickly. i.e. 1 to 1.5 secs ish not 3 -4 seconds ish? Would the flare height be any different on a normal paraglider? Do you have any video of good landings with a nucleon or synthesis so that I could compare and mentally go through the action and see if I can spot the difference? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgy Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Hi barrry I know i fly a fusion but i would say the way to flare will be the same..... I dont start to fare until i am just a few feet 2/3 and as your coming in allot faster than you would do on your paraglider wing you need to be slower on the brakes at first. You need to come in fully hands up as on your paraglider then just touch the brakes and slowly bleed to speed the slower you get the more you pull until you feel it time to fully flare. You will know if your pulling to hard to fast as you will rise up a foot or so. When you come home barry we can go to the field and we can film a landing or to. If you like i could invite steve haze up. to see if he will teach you what your missing on your landings (as i am not an instructor) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haze Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Hi Barry, The best way on these reflex wings is pretty much how Morgy described it. You have to swoop in to bleed off the speed and slow the wing down. I tell people to line up on final approach with hands-up/no-brake to allow the wing to stabilise (iron out any oscillations). Then bring hands level with ears/shoulders to slow the wing a little bit when you are about 20 feet above the ground. Hold that and you will level out slightly. Keep it there until you are about 6 or 7 feet above the ground and then bury the brakes deep for a nice flare (the amount of flare of course depends on how strong the wind is). Fine tuning that technique with a more progressive flare at the end works well. The difference for landing planning is that you have to imagine your glide path a bit more like that of a slide; It comes in as normal and then levels out a bit before the flare. If you have trouble getting it, then let me know and I'll show you when I finally get to pay you guys a visit down in Hambrook. All the best Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquatix Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Hi Barry - I'm glad others have offered their advice. Steve describes it well although I generally start a bit lower at 10 feet, bringing brakes down to just glide level, then when I feel it sinking again go all the way to full flare. I've also tried waiting until my back foot brushes the ground then giving an aggressive flare - it works, but doesn't look very professional ! I will include these landings in the video for your amusement ..... One thing I've noticed with the Nucleon is a slightly delayed response to the initial roundout (probably due to the longer brake travel and greatly increased ground rush effect than a normal paraglider) and this is probably all that has thrown you out on your first landing. With a bit of practice and good timing it is a beautiful wing to land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haze Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 To be honest, the 20 feet is how I teach it for absolute beginners (if they are flying a Synth)...just to give a little bit more reaction time for the flare. 10 feet for a more experienced pilot would be fine...but try it at 20 first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukebanks1 Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Hi Barry, I land the Nucleon on 0 or +2 setting you have much better flare authority this way. Advice I had from Michel is land faster the less headwind there is and if landing downwind too as you convert all the forward speed into flare (flare is a bit more physical). He regularly lands full fast downwind - not tried it myself yet I tried it at the Nationals on the bowling pin task under Michels instruction at trim half way out downwind. I was amased how sweet the landing was - I even hit some pins on my rush in to terra firma. At full slow I find the Nucleon a bit mushy to land, the synth also, as they both have long brake travel versus the fusion which is better to land full slow (shorter travel). I think of it as a child's slide. Down the steep bit (hands up - fast) start the flat bit of the slide at 10ft by bringing hands smoothly but quickly to nipple level then bury the brakes at the last minute to land softly on your feet. The more energy you bring into the landing (speed) the better. Hold your nerve and enjoy the ground rush See you soon. Luke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bholleran Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 Thanks to all who replied. When I got to the flying site yesterday the rain was about to set in and I was only going to get a top to bottom in nil wind, but I guessed that it would be as good a test as any. So a perfect forward launch on typically Greek launch site (full of rock , thistle and small bushes) and scratching around trying to find any lift. Really good to test the handling of the wing. Now for the landing, the landing field is less than perfect (a lot like launch) and did not fancy twisting an ankle or breaking a leg etc, So the pressure was on to nail it this time. I came in on full slow (as I had not read Luke's comment yet) which still seemed quite fast and resisted the temptation to touch the brakes until I was at about 15 ft and then pulled to about half brake and leveled out, I traveled a long way at about 5 ft off the ground and then pulled a full flare just as I was starting to drop. And yipee I landed perfectly. So thanks to every one for there help. Now the question to me was what had I been doing wrong before? This is the best explanation of what I was doing wrong. I am used to free flying and almost always fly in fairly strong wind conditions that allow for top landings. Now when I have been comming in to top land (normally on a downward slope) i found it necessary to progressevely brake and almost stall the wing in very lifty conditions to get down on the hill and not fly out back over the lift zone. This resulted in a very mushy landing, and braking \ flaring too high off the ground. So I think I was trying to do the same when I was doing a nil wind landing and just finding it did not bleed of the speed as I expected as there was no head wind. I suppose I had just forgotten what I had originally been taught because I do not regularly fly in those conditions. Sorry to the original poster for hijacking this thread as that was not the intention, but hopefully it will give you the confidence that the long brake travel is not a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgy Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 Good on yah Barry!!!! Glad to hear you nailed that landing BUT remember you will be carrying allot more speed with your motor+ It will take longer to bleed of that speed . Ring me when your back in the uk we can sort out a smooth evening flight and can spend some time filming your landings if you like...... Have a good one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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