clivefreeman Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 (edited) What hapened here then, pilot was ok but a bit bruised. Could of been alot worse. There was zero wind and he only aplies brake to turn left, against the torque. Is this the reason for the stall. [youtubevideo] [/youtubevideo] Edited October 31, 2010 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outkast Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 when it zooms in just after he leaves the ground it does look like a bit of brake is being applied, it looks like the wing never gained any real airspeed before he applied the brakes to turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbertflyer Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 uncertified glider in the hands of a novice? Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquatix Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 Same scenario as the other vid with FT pilot crashing to ground. Wing naturally turning to right under full power climbout (he should have left it hands up while it climbed, or weight shift / tiny bit of brake just to hold it straight). High AoA due to full power, brings wing closer to stall point. Pilot then uses hefty amount of brake to try to turn left, fighting the right hand turn. Left side of wing stalls, collapses - too low to recover so the rest is history ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyoboy Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 What hapened here then, pilot was ok but a bit bruised.Could of been alot worse. There was zero wind and he only aplies brake to turn left, against the torque. Is this the reason for the stall. [youtubevideo] [/youtubevideo] The left hand side of the wing is at full reflex! the right hand side is fully closed, pulling that much brake in full reflex is what caused the wing to stall, I have done this myself, but I was on a small wing with a high loading and just flew round in a circle, in disbelief at how stupid I had been! I just pulled the trims back in and off I went.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clivefreeman Posted October 31, 2010 Author Share Posted October 31, 2010 Both trims were a little past take off position. There was a big write up on this on ( dare ia say)another forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyoboy Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 Both trims were a little past take off position. There was a big write up on this on ( dare ia say)another forum. Must be right then! and my eyes must be decieving me "A LOT" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clivefreeman Posted November 1, 2010 Author Share Posted November 1, 2010 Same scenario as the other vid with FT pilot crashing to ground.Wing naturally turning to right under full power climbout (he should have left it hands up while it climbed, or weight shift / tiny bit of brake just to hold it straight). High AoA due to full power, brings wing closer to stall point. Pilot then uses hefty amount of brake to try to turn left, fighting the right hand turn. Left side of wing stalls, collapses - too low to recover so the rest is history ..... Have to agree with you, just been watching it in slow mo. Too much brake on left side on climbout . And unfortunatley flying an action gt Thanks Clive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon_dunn Posted November 2, 2010 Share Posted November 2, 2010 Has to be said- the turn rate to the left is pretty excessive. Notice that the pilot is not 'swinging' to the right, therefore airspeed could not have been great. - Increasing the likely hood of a stall in any case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clivefreeman Posted November 3, 2010 Author Share Posted November 3, 2010 So what caused the wing to fly so slow in the first place. Onlyleft hand brake was aplied and it was a fast run up at take of. The rate of climb was slow and there was no wind. I am a low hours pilot myself so would like to know what was going on. Thanks Clive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_k Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 Can't see the trailing edge brilliantly well, but I think both brakes were applied, the left hand more so. Perhaps the brake lines were not adjusted to give enough slack with hands up. The wing was definately being slowed down, on climb out it should be no brakes or just a little on one side to keep the wing flying straight. Wing was slowed down so much that a stall was inevitable IMHO. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clivefreeman Posted November 3, 2010 Author Share Posted November 3, 2010 I was flying ten minuites before hand and saw it hapen. We checked the brakes and take of position of trimers all was normal. He walked away from it but was well shaken up, luckily enough he landed in nice soft ploughed mud. Hes right hand was definatley up at all times. The parajet took a beating, on coming down he was spiraling down very quick. He is now considering a new synthesis if he decides to fly again. But hes said that he will not fly the gt again. Thanks Clive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyfreefly Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 Its obvious what has happened here...... the clue is in the name of the wing and its not ......Good Turn.... ........ITS ..... Got Trouble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t_andrews Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 @ 19s in HD it is evident that there is significant deformation on the right trailing edge, but it's not evident that there was a lot of brake application on that side. I think we all agree airspeed was too low due to the outcome, but why is the thing that would be good to understand. Pilot can speak to it, but the rest of us are guessing. Energy management failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquatix Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 Well I think the reasons have been explained (even though it is educated guessing) and I stand by my earlier post. Often even the pilot may not fully understand the reason (hence why the accident happens) but if you read the advice / warnings from the Action GT manual it certainly describes what I can see in the video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helimed01 Posted November 8, 2010 Share Posted November 8, 2010 when it zooms in just after he leaves the ground it does look like a bit of brake is being applied, it looks like the wing never gained any real airspeed before he applied the brakes to turn. I agree outcast, both brakes (including right) appear to remain on during and after take off evidenced at the trailing edge, the wing never reaching true flying speed before the pilot attempted a turn agianst torque at full power / AOA. The GT is an advanced wing not for novice pilots. How many hours / take off's had the pilot achieved at this point? Normally feedback through the brake lines should inform the pilot the flying state of his wing if he has sufficient unconscious competence to take in this information during a critical phase of flight like take off. I had a similar thing happen to me in 2006 but after a streight climb out and at 800 ft. The cause turned out to be knots in my D risers which I missed during pre-flight checks and post take off check. I had a turn which I ignored and when the left wing collapsed I failed to execute the correct proceedure to get the wing flying again. On landing I immediately bundled the wing up and sent it to the loft for inspection. They found the knots in the D lines. Prior to the loft inspection providing the cause of collapse I spoke to wing designers describing what had happened. I was informed that under power it is possible to achieve take off with the wing in the partial stall, hanging back not achieving true airspeed. In this state any attempted menouvre may induce a stall on the side of the input. I believe this type of situation is common in all paramotor wings not just one make!! As for executing recovery proceedure I attempted to pump out the collapsed wing with the brakes which induced a full stall on both sides I was informed that the best proceedure was to pull on the A risers to get the wing flying again which makes sense as this is how we get the wing inflated when ground handling. Obviously the chap in the vid did not have the time / height to attempt anything other than a brace for PLF. Its good to share thoughts ideas and experiences both good and bad. Regards. Whitters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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