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Revo 2 reviews


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Fanman, I was not present during testing... But it is supposed to be tested at full slow, no reflex, paraglider mode.

Yes its gets tested with speed bar in full slow and 1/4 brakes. Paramania manual still says its not good practice.

I have used my Fusion full slow with speed bar, I say used, I mean tested the idea. I often fly it at takeoff trim. inch to 1/2 inch out from full slow, its a bit faster and I like the handling feel in that area. Its nice to be able to choose depending on what you are doing and your mood at that time. I rarely use the speed bar for most of my flying. I was cliff flying once and as the wind increased I just let a little more trim out each time.

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Perhaps a newbie should consider that if any wing that has reflex only when at the upper end of its trim range but is only tested when being flown as a pure paragliding style conventional airfoil it should be at least an A or maximum a B (low end?) to be suitable for a beginner.

Vince, you didn't need to be present at the testing to know the answer and that is why I didn't ask where you were!

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The debate about the issue of doing PG tests on wings that exhibit reflex is that the reflexed wing profle is less prone to collapse in the first place however that is not considered in the testing process.

So... if a wing like the Revo 2 gets a B at slow trim without reflex while a Synthesis gets a C at slow trim with reflex then perhaps it can be seen that the idea of just saying B must be better than C is flawed. The reality of the situation is that all the beginner wings are suitable for learning to paramotor but sometimes you need to read between the lines of PR.

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Yes much of it is meaningless, if a wing is good and its flown by lots who say yey its good. eg did the Action Re-Actions ever get any EN status, and most would happily fly one of those that now days seem so docile.

I do find stating EN/B is good for a sales point of view.

Personal experience & word of mouth we all know the Synthesis is a solid wing. The Fusion is EN/C and when I read through the test report its really only for the brake travel and liveliness, not the recovery.

All that said if I know a customer is going to be free flying off a cliff as well as paramotor, I would recommend the EN/B over the EN/C just in case of collapse and recovery. Better to have a 90 degree turn with no pilot input that a near 180 degree.

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...All that said if I know a customer is going to be free flying off a cliff as well as paramotor, I would recommend the EN/B over the EN/C just in case of collapse and recovery. Better to have a 90 degree turn with no pilot input that a near 180 degree.

...or it could be argued that it would have been better to have been on the wing that was less likely to have the collapse in the first place. Better to have no turn than a 90 degree turn with no pilot input.

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Exactly, testing only deals with recovery from the situation, not the likelihood of it occuring in the first place. It's down to the buyer to choose whether prevention is better than the cure.

This is an age old conversation regarding reflex wings in general. Although the above comment is 100% bang on and the first thing to consider.

On my old DHV 1/2 Ozone Electron, its safe to say I would have some sort of 'tip event' or small tuck, every other time I flew it. (the electron was the best wing at the time and people still fly them today.)

Since moving over to reflex wings about 4-5 year ago??? I have had one full frontal during the tip to tip, which was hairy and down to bad flying weather this was a Revo1. I have also had a 1/3rd asymmetric in a Synth over the white horse, I put this down to positioning myself badly in rotor.

SW :D

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I have had one asymmetric on my fusion, I got into bad rotor flying to far back behind a cliff face in 25+ mph winds, I wasn't in reflex mode. Bad judgment and choices while also pushing my limits which I reached. Prior to that I was happily cruising up and down the cliff in winds I would never normally fly in or thought possible to fly in and all was sweet. More knowledge of the site, more knowledge of how the increased wind affected conditions at lz and it would have been avoided. The biggest tell tale was the few local pilots sitting in cars watching (not flying) :roll:

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The problem with rating a wing 'B' (or whatever) is it doesn't tell you much - without reading & understanding the test report, at the weight you will be flying it at. Even then you have to make an educated guess at things like collapse resisitance.

I have always flown DHV 1/2 (En 'B', LTF 1/2) wings and there is quite a big range of differences just in this class. Some collapse easily (and often) but pop out almost instantly with a bang - these usually achieve an 'A' or '1' in tests. Other wings seem to resist collapses more, then deal with them less dramatically as the wing unfurls itself more slowly. This speed of recovery tends to score them a 'B' or '2' - although I actually prefer flying this type of wing as it makes practicing things like assymmetrics and 'B' line stalls a 'non event'. "Collapse resistance" doesn't always seem to be achievable with easy recovery characteriistics.

Now paramotoring is gaining popularity (over a third of the stalls at St.Hilaire festival and even a few at the Oludeniz Air Games) I don't see why they can't introduce additional tests. Every manufacturer quotes a PPG weight range higher than for PG - sometimes the difference is massive. If a wing is targeted for PPG why not test at that maximum weight, and with trimmers on fast ? Until then we will all be "test pilots" from the moment we touch the trimmers.

Its all very well to suggest flying in full reflex mode with hands off in rough air, but the C & D lines are already slack at speed so although a collapse is less likely due to loading the 'A' lines, if it does occur the results could be 'interesting'. A good pilot should know the limits but these 'super stable' new wings encourage flying in stronger conditions than people would attempt 10 years ago.

The final problem is making these new wings to suit everyone - from beginner to advanced, PG or PPG. We want rock solid stability but also a fun & responsive wing. Super slow for easy launches, landing & thermalling, but also high speed cruising - with good glide ratio & fuel economy. Strong collapse resistance but easy recovery. Each of these factors is a trade-off against others, although on paper the Revo 2 (and other newer wings) appear to have it all. At least each year we are getting improvements so maybe being a 'test pilot' isn't all bad ...... :wink:

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Its a guide to a wings characteristics, the rest you find out for yourself. As with everything Paramotoring you are the deciding factor.

Weather to fly and whether to fly, is my motor safe, is that sticky tape a sufficient repair. Should I get the reserve out of the car today? do i feel lucky?

I must stress this is not me, just things I have seen, read and heard over time. Someone will complain about a wing etc etc then go flying with a motor thats not fit.

How much reflex is in my wing, I don't really know how to quantify that but its a lot more than my last wing, I can feel it and it feels a good amount. If I want to fly without reflex I pull it all in to full slow, If I want to fly with a tiny bit like a synth on full slow then I let a bit out... How much??? what ever feels about right for my personal preference, I like having the choice. Gone are the days of the Action where reflex was pretty much either on or off'ish. Now with these new wings there is a definite range and its a personal choice and feeling where you like your trimmers set.

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Now with these new wings there is a definite range and its a personal choice and feeling where you like your trimmers set.

Brings me back to an old question: If you are getting low on fuel and heading to base, assuming no wind what is the best trim position ? Full fast, burn more fuel but get there quicker, or a slower trim (down to neutral ?) to get a better glide ratio ?

Also, at what point in the trim range do you switch from brakes to wing tip steering ? Unlike some wings the Revo 2 brakes don't seem to go 'hard' at full reflex so its tempting to use them for faster turns. Air speed will be high so a stall is unlikely but not sure if it might induce a spin ?

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There was some testing done on the best trim it was something strange like 1/2 reflex with full bar. I myself would go with what ever make the engine rev lowest but is still moving, which would put me on neutral or just below.

Switching from brakes to tips is marked on the risers. I know if I pull hard enough on the normal brakes while at full fast I can curl in a tip, but this goes against all the advice for flying a reflex wing. For example, you don't read the manual for a car and then go and do the opposite to what it says.

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Switching from brakes to tips is marked on the risers. ... you don't read the manual for a car and then go and do the opposite to what it says.

Nothing marked on the risers or in the manual (apart from the big warnings not to use speed bar on slow trim) although it does say WTS becomes more effective and safer with trims fully off - hence the question.

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All my risers have been clearly marked on all the wings I have sold and my own that I fly.

Wing manuals never seem that well written across the whole sport, but then again it is not a manual on how to fly.

Use bar and brakes happily in neutral, use tips and brakes at the same time etc etc, all this is for more experienced pilots and it need not be in the manual. I think it probably best be removed as to not add confusion as anyone who it experienced enough to know these maneuvers doesn't require it written in a manual.

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When I was flying my new Pap Pa125 and the exhaust fell off going straight through the prop wrecking it as it went :shock: ....... ( I was flying fast trim with full speed bar ..)

..dont ask me why I dont know but I pulled the trimers back to (Take off position) first while still on full speedbar....once I realized what I had done I let the speed bar go... AS SHARP AS.....

the realization that I put the wing in that configuration

probably scared me more than having to cope with a forced landing....but I learnt that nothing happened.......perhaps I was lucky......

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Vince - thanks ? :?: Personally I thought the Revo 2 manual was very well written, clear and informative (compared to others), although I didn't get to see it until some weeks after the wing arrived ... The one glaring omission was anything to do with setting up the WTS, which I emailed them about some months ago to be included in the next revision ...

As for experience, I always read the manual before doing even familiar maneuvers on a new wing - as the technique often differs slightly depending on manufacture / designer.

Gary - thankfully the wings we fly now are very forgiving of pilot input. Your story reminded me of an 'interesting' landing when I stepped out of my harness on final approach but my feet caught the speed bar and put it full on in the last moments before flare. Not something I plan to do again !!

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