pete_b Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 Do you think you would have gained anything from having a tandem flight starting or during your training? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanman Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 Pete, as a tandem owner/flyer I am well placed to comment. I think tandem is under-estimated for its benefit for the training system, however its use is not perhaps how a trainee would imagine. I don't see it as a means of giving control to the student for a variety of reasons. These include... it doesn't handle like a solo rig due to inertia, different natural frequency (longer line lengths), etc., the brakes are in the wrong position for the front seat occupant, there is no throttle/kill switch for the front seat, and so on. Where it is good is for giving the front seat an introduction to the sensory experience and talking them through the decision making processes. By this I mean the front seat learns what it feels like to be suspended at altitude yet while not having to be resposible for the outcome. They learn how to get in and out of the seat and can have excellent demonstrations of how to plan a circuit and judge an approach. Other things I like to do are to get the front seat to look up at the wing while holding onto my hands (which are holding the brakes) so that they can see/feel the way we can use brakes together to control the speed of the wing and how that translates across to active flying. So yes, as long as it is considered an addition to solo training I think it is a brilliant tool that the BHPA fail to realise could be used to their benefit. The question is how many people have the right approach to be on the back of a tandem in the first place. It is a big responsibility that requires a lot of care and diligence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surrey-dad Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 ...Where it is good is for giving the front seat an introduction to the sensory experience and talking them through the decision making processes. By this I mean the front seat learns what it feels like to be suspended at altitude yet while not having to be resposible for the outcome. Absolutely - I certainly tried to find out about taking a tandem flight when checking on PPG back in the UK. Unfortunately there appeared to be very little available in this part of the south, other than paragliding tandems. But was lucky enough to come across this forum, and then sign up with Simon anyway. For what its worth, I am sure a chance of a tandem ride would have meant me signing up as soon as my feet touched the ground It would probably also serve as a great motivator for any folk that have not taken their first flight, and at risk of dropping out of training - just to realise what awaits them with an extra push. Fanman - talking of which, whereabouts are you located Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 Fanman... Can you PM me your number please. I want to pick your brains. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irm750 Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 My instructor Andy Morant has been free flying tandem and solo paramotoring for years and has converted to tandem paramotoring. He has recently been providing pleasure flights successfully and expects that a large percentage of the pleasure flight customers will want to learn to fly for themselves. I'm sure he is right! Here's his website - http://www.aeroaviation.co.uk/dual-flying.html Regards, Ian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tj Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 As a potential student I've been looking for this facility as well. What better way to introduce someone to the sport, emphasise the importance of the safety drills and demonstrate how easy navigation actually can be, than by taking someone out on a tandem flight. Less of a 'tourist flight' more of a potential student flight. If this was included in the price of a course I'd probably have paid my cash and then used the experience as a motivation while I'm studying..! Tj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dantheman Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 Personally I did not want to go tandem to learn, I found tow launching to be good take off and landing practice and I was aware of the difficulties you have when flying tandem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 My instructor Andy Morant has been free flying tandem and solo paramotoring for years and has converted to tandem paramotoring. He has recently been providing pleasure flights successfully and expects that a large percentage of the pleasure flight customers will want to learn to fly for themselves. I'm sure he is right! Here's his website - http://www.aeroaviation.co.uk/dual-flying.html Regards, Ian. I assume that he is not charging money for the pleasure flights? this would be illegal. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanman Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 Apologies for not yet replying to PM's but have been out flying yesterday evening and early this morning so haven't found time. Dan - Tandem is no use for teaching take off and landing. It is a demonstration tool rather than hands on. Ian - Andy Morrant uses a Fresh Breeze Monster and a Dudek Orca for tandem. This is exactly the same as my tandem rig. He gives people what he would describe as a taster flight on a one day course. A friend of mine did this with him however my friend then didn't do any further training with Andy as he was unconvinced that he knew where the line lay between instructor and vendor! Fine if you want to end up with a high hang point Fresh Breeze! I have spoken once to Andy and he certainly knows how to talk, but his heart is generally in the right place! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irm750 Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 A friend of mine did this with him however my friend then didn't do any further training with Andy as he was unconvinced that he knew where the line lay between instructor and vendor! Fine if you want to end up with a high hang point Fresh Breeze! I have spoken once to Andy and he certainly knows how to talk, but his heart is generally in the right place! The most succinct, accurate and politically correct summary of Andy that I have ever heard! I learned early on to that Andy likes to talk and is always enthusing about the wings, motors and other equipment that he currently flys or has dealerships for, but then how many instructors have never done this??? I have always found Andy to be safety conscious first and foremost. If anything during training he was sometimes frustratingly so but I feel that as a trainee I'm glad he kept me on the ground until everything was spot on. Regarding payment, I don't know what Andy does. You'd have to ask him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t_andrews Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 I've only ever flown as a tandem leg dangling passenger once, on day three or four of free flight training. Instructor in my ear and hands over his on toggles - short flight maybe thirty minutes due to conditions. Most I ever learned about the sport in the shortest period of time. Certainly more difficult to apply when a throttle is in proximity of an unknown passenger's grabby hand, and it's noisy, and there are vibrations - but the learning curve gets pushed pretty flat compared to an instructor reading a furrowed brow interpretation of theory or wing deformations from the ground. Even with training comms in the backseat of a topgun paraski PPC it didn't compare, but different agendas for training too. One teaches to fly, the other to operate, although some folks are blending the best of both. Keep it up you lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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