Mancunian newbie needs advice on buying wings/motor!

[tool2142]

Hello people, just to start,,,,, im new on here and to paramotoring but i have this deep desire to start flying very soon! I want some advice on what is the best wings and motor for me but have no idea on what or who are the advisable companies and products to buy from for an amateur like myself! I am 6ft and 13st but i want the essential set up at a relatively reasonable cost, plus i am hoping that there is a wing and motor that is versatile enough to be able to fly solo or tandem with my girlfriend or friend at some point in the future, ( both at relatively the same weight ). As i say, i dont know anything about where to start looking and what im looking for specifically!! i would appreciate your help on this matter,,,,,, and just to point out that i want new or near new'ish gear as i have a thing about warranty and safety especially when it comes to my life i would also want not top of the range gear but not the very basic things,, simply put, i dont want to slowly chug along but im no pro at this and i am concerned my budget is not massive,, prices would be great as it gives me a serious round about figure of what im to expect to pay!!! I watched "Mission Everst" last week and drooled once again at the possiility at flying so i went on 'Parajet' website, and although i loved what i saw, i dont know if this is too pricey or too professional for a begginer, please please could anybody help me with this, these are my first steps to taking up this as a hobby and fulfilling a liflong dream! thanks guys and dolls

[flyingdoc]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

First up, we were all in your position once so don't worry, you'll sort it out.

Second you are unlikely to find a wing that is suitable for you to go solo and tandem on. Tandem wings are specialist bits of kit. Also it's likely to be a year or more before you feel safe enough to try taking someone else up.

Secondly by specifying a motor that will also do tandem you are only able to look at the bigger more expensive, more powerful and thus 'heavier' motors. This may not be ideal for learning on.

The truth is you need to find an instructor to guide you through the morass of possibilities.

Manchester paragliders is obviously near you and run by Paul Kilburn who is a nice guy who I have met. I trained with Andy Walkden at Southport which is not too far http://www.flyschool.co.uk. Either of those will get you started with groundhandling a wing and Andy can certainly provide a motor for your first few flights. I presume Paul does too.

Costs as I am sure you can understand vary considerably depending on your budget and your 'flying style'. But very roughly Motor £4000 new ( A little less 2nd hand.) Wing £2500-3000 depending on recommendations. Flying course roughly £800 - 1000.

I live in Cheshire and fly locally whenever I can. There is a small group of us nearby. Just check out the Cheshire section.

Good Luck and enjoy. This is one of the most fun things you can do standing up or sitting....

[fanman]

This sport is versatile... but not that versatile! There are very few people in the UK that paramotor tandem, maybe 10 perhaps, and that includes me. Tandem really needs a motor designed for the task. You can do it on solo machines but you are only making life difficult for yourself. Consequently on the odd occasion I fly my tandem motor solo the thrust is so great that you have to be very careful with the throttle. I always prefer to fly a solo machine when it's just me. Similarly with the wing. Yes you can get away with the largest solo wings but you are expecting a lot from your passenger. This difficulty factor becomes a square law when you mate that with a motor not designed for tandem. You need a proper tandem wing (40+ sq m) for tandem which you really don't want to be flying solo. Also for solo flying reflex is a plus which is not so much the case with tandem.

[alan_k]

A couple of really good answers there Tool (what a name to choose, you must have a sense of humour ).

Have a good search of this forum and you will find threads on what motor and what wing already.

Use the Search link over on the right, also look at http://www.para2000.org/ for info on loads of manufacturers and models of wing, you'll be suprised at the variety.

Good luck,

Alan

[aquatix]

Agreed - some good, sensible answers above.

I'm fairly local & did my training with Paul K., although I've met Andy W. and know a lot of people who've trained with him.

Your list of requirements pretty much exactly matches the kit I've got advertised in the Classifieds section - a new Simonini tandem / solo paramotor and an almost brand new Apco Thrust wing. Only 20 minutes from Manchester on M62 so your welcome to take a look.

One thing I would personally recommend is to do some free-flying training (at least EPC) first, as there are some excellent sites, instructors and schools within a short drive of Manchester. It will help a lot when you come to strap a motor on your back, with less to take in at once. Cost is only slightly more as the first stages are the same in both (theory, wing handling, ground control etc) so you will save a couple of days on the motor training.

A wing like the Thrust is ideal for both, and more than doubles the opportunity for flying. I take every chance to do either and would be hard pressed to say which I enjoy most, so why limit yourself to just one ?

Finally, read up everything on the internet, flying forums or a good book like the paramotoring bible - then you will have a better idea of what gear will best suit you and how you want to progress in the sport.

[tool2142]

Thanks many times over for all your speedy responses and quality advice,,, having had a few days to reflect on what you guys have said, i still have a couple of questions and again i would ask for you to forgive me for the pedestrian questions im about to ask!!!! Before i ask i would like to state that i dont have any money as of yet to buy any gear so im doing what i always do which is research, research, research then find out the best solution to my problems, Firstly i intend to get the money for the training course and round about the same time im doing the course i will buy a set of wings and harness but no motor as of yet ( my plan is to get alot of ground control in before i decide to go off on my own somewhere and fly away once im semi - profficient at this ) so,,,what i want to know is - Is there anty significant difference between a paraglider wing and a paramotor wing, and if so 'what?' aswell as if 'NOT', then can i use the the wing im buying for paramotoring, to go paragliding and get some training air time before i decide to strap a motor on my back,,, ( im very cautious when it comes to things like safety, as i need to be comfortable with myself before i go all Gung-Ho in the air )!!!! Secondly,, will i need a reserve chute, do any of you guys fly frequently with them on or not and what is the altitude you need to be at before you can successfully deploy your reserve!! thanks once again and i will look forward to hearing your comments!!

[aquatix]

Research is a good thing. Read as much as you can and ask questions until you are sure.

Wings come in basically 2 types - standard and reflex. Many standard wings can be used equally for free flying and motor flight. You can specify different risers depending which you are likely to do most - some have trimmers and different hang points. Reflex wings are faster and more exclusively for motor use. You may find it easier to learn with a non-reflex wing - especially if you are free flying as well.

Don't worry about a reserve just yet - your instructor will deal with that. Hill flyers tend to use them after training but lots of motor pilots don't bother due to the calmer air they fly in. Reserve deployments are extremely rare, but of course it is better to have one and never use it than have that once in a lifetime moment when you do. I've never needed the airbag on my car, but would not take it out .....

[fanman]

More and more of us are ditching our regular paragliding wings and free flying our paramotor wings. The new reflex wings on the market (Fusion, Synthesis, Nucleon, etc) free fly REALLY well.

[tool2142]

well, once again im back but without questions this time, after weeks of research and talking to manchester paragliders aswell as parapente paragliding in derby, i have decided to undertake the EPC paragliding for the duration and then go and partake in the paramotor conversion course! comments are most welcome!!! thanks guys Dylan.

[manit40]

Hi tool2142 is it not cheaper to do the full paramotor course in stead of splitting it up in 2 as it work out a lot more expensive parapente offer the full paramotor course up to cp together at £999 http://www.fly-paragliders.co.uk/ just a thought m8 as i prob will be doin mine there in 2011 hopefully...........cash permitting

EPC course 4 to 6 days then £399 for the 3 day paramotor conversion

£ 549

CPC course 6 to 8 days

£ 599

EPC + CPC combined

£ 999

[tool2142]

Hi tool2142 is it not cheaper to do the full paramotor course in stead of splitting it up in 2 as it work out a lot more expensive parapente offer the full paramotor course up to cp together at £999 http://www.fly-paragliders.co.uk/ just a thought m8 as i prob will be doin mine there in 2011 hopefully...........cash permitting

EPC course 4 to 6 days then £399 for the 3 day paramotor conversion

£ 549

CPC course 6 to 8 days

£ 599

EPC + CPC combined

£ 999

..... Yes you are right, i initially decided to do just the EPC then go and do the paramotor conversion course in trafford air strip, but having had such great fun on the taster day at Parapente aswell as time to reflect,,,, i decided that i am going to do the full EPC + CPC as there is still a lot to learn, i have attained around 10 hrs of DVD training films which are very useful. and if you like i could do you copies of if youre interested, ( via USB stick )! it shows everything from basic ground control to techniques in the air aswell as SIV training. thanks for the concern about prices, but yes i did realise this and will be doing mine around march time when weather is better and i have all the funds available to me! i intend to buy my gear next year too.... at first i was more than willing to sell my £1500 paintball gear and other things to do this sport, but i realised that im being impatient, which can be unsafe especially in this air based activity! So.. realistically speaking, for me, im thinking its going to be £1000 for training, £3000 - £4000 on gear ( i want new gear ).. that for any average earning guy is a lot of money to invest, not to mention buying a paramotor £3000 - £4000 ( 1st or 2nd hand ) so my plan of action is get xmas out of the way, save save save, do the full EPC + CPC in march, buy all my gear, then just play about ( safely ) for another year or so, just to learn as much as possible before i go and buy the paramotor! the idea of cross country flight really appeals to me, but im more than aware of the costs, time, learning as safely as you can and enjoying this new sport for the rest of my life if i apply myself in the correct approach to this, any lapse in safety or lack of knowledge of techniques in unsteady situtations can result ultimately in death...... I could waffle on for hours haha!! anyway thanks again, let me know how your getting on and if you want any training dvd stuff!! take it easy

[manit40]

Hi tool2142 is it not cheaper to do the full paramotor course in stead of splitting it up in 2 as it work out a lot more expensive parapente offer the full paramotor course up to cp together at £999 http://www.fly-paragliders.co.uk/ just a thought m8 as i prob will be doin mine there in 2011 hopefully...........cash permitting

EPC course 4 to 6 days then £399 for the 3 day paramotor conversion

£ 549

CPC course 6 to 8 days

£ 599

EPC + CPC combined

£ 999

..... Yes you are right' date=' i initially decided to do just the EPC then go and do the paramotor conversion course in trafford air strip, but having had such great fun on the taster day at Parapente aswell as time to reflect,,,, i decided that i am going to do the full EPC + CPC as there is still a lot to learn, i have attained around 10 hrs of DVD training films which are very useful. and if you like i could do you copies of if youre interested, ( via USB stick )! it shows everything from basic ground control to techniques in the air aswell as SIV training. thanks for the concern about prices, but yes i did realise this and will be doing mine around march time when weather is better and i have all the funds available to me! i intend to buy my gear next year too.... at first i was more than willing to sell my £1500 paintball gear and other things to do this sport, but i realised that im being impatient, which can be unsafe especially in this air based activity! So.. realistically speaking, for me, im thinking its going to be £1000 for training, £3000 - £4000 on gear ( i want new gear ).. that for any average earning guy is a lot of money to invest, not to mention buying a paramotor £3000 - £4000 ( 1st or 2nd hand ) so my plan of action is get xmas out of the way, save save save, do the full EPC + CPC in march, buy all my gear, then just play about ( safely ) for another year or so, just to learn as much as possible before i go and buy the paramotor! the idea of cross country flight really appeals to me, but im more than aware of the costs, time, learning as safely as you can and enjoying this new sport for the rest of my life if i apply myself in the correct approach to this, any lapse in safety or lack of knowledge of techniques in unsteady situtations can result ultimately in death...... I could waffle on for hours haha!! anyway thanks again, let me know how your getting on and if you want any training dvd stuff!! take it easy [/quote']

Hi dylan m8 where abouts in manchester are you i live in sale have ta get together if ya want to i to have a few dvd risk and reward i think i have about 4 of them watched all but one of them great dvd am the same talk a glass eye ta sleep parapente is only 20miles from manchester i thought it would be a lot farther than that suppose better than goin ta liverpool or southport double the distance lol........ check this full kit out brand new m8 john

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/New-100-cc-G6-Par ... 2eb0860645

[tool2142]

Hi tool2142 is it not cheaper to do the full paramotor course in stead of splitting it up in 2 as it work out a lot more expensive parapente offer the full paramotor course up to cp together at £999 http://www.fly-paragliders.co.uk/ just a thought m8 as i prob will be doin mine there in 2011 hopefully...........cash permitting

EPC course 4 to 6 days then £399 for the 3 day paramotor conversion

£ 549

CPC course 6 to 8 days

£ 599

EPC + CPC combined

£ 999

..... Yes you are right' date=' i initially decided to do just the EPC then go and do the paramotor conversion course in trafford air strip, but having had such great fun on the taster day at Parapente aswell as time to reflect,,,, i decided that i am going to do the full EPC + CPC as there is still a lot to learn, i have attained around 10 hrs of DVD training films which are very useful. and if you like i could do you copies of if youre interested, ( via USB stick )! it shows everything from basic ground control to techniques in the air aswell as SIV training. thanks for the concern about prices, but yes i did realise this and will be doing mine around march time when weather is better and i have all the funds available to me! i intend to buy my gear next year too.... at first i was more than willing to sell my £1500 paintball gear and other things to do this sport, but i realised that im being impatient, which can be unsafe especially in this air based activity! So.. realistically speaking, for me, im thinking its going to be £1000 for training, £3000 - £4000 on gear ( i want new gear ).. that for any average earning guy is a lot of money to invest, not to mention buying a paramotor £3000 - £4000 ( 1st or 2nd hand ) so my plan of action is get xmas out of the way, save save save, do the full EPC + CPC in march, buy all my gear, then just play about ( safely ) for another year or so, just to learn as much as possible before i go and buy the paramotor! the idea of cross country flight really appeals to me, but im more than aware of the costs, time, learning as safely as you can and enjoying this new sport for the rest of my life if i apply myself in the correct approach to this, any lapse in safety or lack of knowledge of techniques in unsteady situtations can result ultimately in death...... I could waffle on for hours haha!! anyway thanks again, let me know how your getting on and if you want any training dvd stuff!! take it easy [/quote']

Hi dylan m8 where abouts in manchester are you i live in sale have ta get together if ya want to i to have a few dvd risk and reward i think i have about 4 of them watched all but one of them great dvd am the same talk a glass eye ta sleep parapente is only 20miles from manchester i thought it would be a lot farther than that suppose better than goin ta liverpool or southport double the distance lol........ check this full kit out brand new m8 john

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/New-100-cc-G6-Par ... 2eb0860645

..... i live in cheetham hill, other side of the city,, i used to live in sale for a number of years but moved here with my girlfriend, its less than half a mile past town! we will have to swap dvd stuff i think, im always busy so time for me is an issue but ill get in touch as and when im free, im always working so id have to meet up in town one day for a coffee and chat if you like! I drive buses for 12hrs a day so itd have to be when i have a day off to met up! That paramotor for sale is nice. but i dont if its right for me just yet.. i think i need more training before i decide what wing and things ill be buying,, if i had the money now. id buy all my gear anyways dude i must go for now, im on the last 2 days of a 10 day holiday and am decorating the house, busy busy busy as usual! speak soon no doubt! take care for now

[manit40]

have ta get ta gether Dylan m8 when ya get time off and meet in trafford center or something like that i can bring my lappy got about 6 gig of stuff for ya m8 great vids.....

[tool2142]

have ta get ta gether Dylan m8 when ya get time off and meet in trafford center or something like that i can bring my lappy got about 6 gig of stuff for ya m8 great vids.....

... Hey, just had a much simpler idea... here is a list of what ive got at home ( all downloadable from pirate bay )type the following into google and add 'torrent' at the end of each title,,.......... Paragliding Educational Dynamic Decisions..................Paragliding instability 2........Paragliding learn to fly......Starting paragliding........1st paragliding ground handling techniques........ PManual.........Paragliding SIV Training........Paragliding playground........Broken toe acro.......... Hope that these help you there is like 12Gb worth there too so many many hours of training vids!!! remember to put torrent at the end of each title, hey should be on pirate bay.... make sure you have U torrent program installed for downloading.. i dont think you get caught if you use it,, unlike others i believe! anyways. enjoy! Dylan.

[manit40]

have ta get ta gether Dylan m8 when ya get time off and meet in trafford center or something like that i can bring my lappy got about 6 gig of stuff for ya m8 great vids.....

... Hey, just had a much simpler idea... here is a list of what ive got at home ( all downloadable from pirate bay )type the following into google and add 'torrent' at the end of each title,,.......... Paragliding Educational Dynamic Decisions..................Paragliding instability 2........Paragliding learn to fly......Starting paragliding........1st paragliding ground handling techniques........ PManual.........Paragliding SIV Training........Paragliding playground........Broken toe acro.......... Hope that these help you there is like 12Gb worth there too so many many hours of training vids!!! remember to put torrent at the end of each title, hey should be on pirate bay.... make sure you have U torrent program installed for downloading.. i dont think you get caught if you use it,, unlike others i believe! anyways. enjoy! Dylan.

cheers Dylan m8 for that i dont use windows i use ubuntu 10.10 os free and virus free not used windows for years m8 to many back doors in Microsoft products not that safe btw use commodo firewall with antivirus works ex well and its free i used ta be a microsoft techie years a go...........