Guest Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 Hi tim, The lead time is 3 weeks from order (as they are made to order) I would like to think that I would still have the demo for the UK's most awesome fly-in yes. If not I can send it back and get it back again for the fly-in if the interest is there. Ref Weight, I can only go by the manufactures recommendations the same as you so I would say 130kg's will be fine for sure.. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paraskyhigh55 Posted June 6, 2010 Share Posted June 6, 2010 More Force info: Please see the following text which was part of an email sent to Anatoly Cohn at Acpo Aviation: After more flying with the Apco Force I thought I would give you more feedback of the flying with this incredible wing. I normally fly the Apco Vista HP and this has always been capable of flying with my customers when I run the flying holidays in the UK. I need a wing that will keep up with the range of wings that these pilots fly with (Apco, Dudek, Gin, Paramania etc) and the Apco Vista HP is able to match everything so far. The Apco Force has now changed my flying with a noticeable improvement in speed and stability. During a demonstration day I allowed two pilots to fly with the Force while I used my trusty Apco Vista HP. The wind speed was gusty at take off and varied from 7 – 18mph (11 - 29kph) at ground level (not the conditions I would normally fly in). After take off the pilot using the Force began to edge in front while I was using the trimmers partly released – so I went to fast trim. When the pilot on the Force went to fast trim he cruised away – so I went to full speed by using the speed bar. When the Force pilot used the speed bar I was left behind feeling like I had suddenly hit the brakes. The Force pilot then came back to me and I flew using full speed bar while he was on the half fast trim setting and did a final test by flying alongside a motorway with the tail wind. At full speed I was able to keep up with and overtake the trucks and some of the traffic on a clear motorway and then my sense of speed was spoiled as the Force pilot when cruising past me at fast trim and full speed bar. I initially thought “wow” then I thought “give me that Force back”. The speed of the heavy traffic on this major highway is 55 – 60mph (88 – 97 kph) and this was confirmed with the GPS when it showed a ground speed of 17 – 20 mph (27 – 32 kph) into wind and a ground speed 57 – 60 mph (92 – 97 kph) downwind with fast trimmers open and full speed bar. Landing and take off speeds were very similar to the Thrust HP and Vista HP with a very good slow flat glide once the brakes are applied for landing. The two pilots who flew with the Force were so impressed they have ordered one straight away. The tests were completed using the AXB FS1 paramotor (4 stroke) using the medium Apco Force with my pilot weight being 80kg. I believe the Force is the fastest production reflex wing available at the moment and my tests proved that the Force can achieve speeds of over 40mph (67kph). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_b Posted June 6, 2010 Share Posted June 6, 2010 Snip More Force info: Please see the following text which was part of an email sent to Anatoly Cohn at Acpo Aviation: Try before you buy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbertflyer Posted June 7, 2010 Share Posted June 7, 2010 I'd like to get on the list for a demo on the Force (M) at the nationals. I should be there on the Friday at least, pending decent weather of course. Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 All, By lunchtime today, I will have the demo Apco Force (M) It's looking too windy again today... But I hope to put a review up in the next few days. (maybe sunset today) fingers xed. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyfreefly Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 I flew the medium a couple of weeks ago....I wanted to test the small but as I am in the weight of the medium (very bottom end) I had a go of it......its good.....the tip steering when on reflex is something else I reckon its better than when on the brakes and it floats up in nearly no wind....and on the bar its ..... ( Quick As..) my gps told me 36MPH into wind 40 MPH down wind .so no wind really..and its super steady on full bar ie it doesnt start to roll......all in all I liked it .....now I need to test the small next month apparently..... .......... (How quick will that be) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibbio Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 i have one of these wings flown once very confident it will do everything the manufacturers promse very light ground handling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stupidcelebrities Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 Definitely expected to hear more about this wing after the nationals. Anyone have anything to say that flew it? 54km/h at trim off sounds like a lot of fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 I have had a quick go on the Medium. The wing flies well & feels nice to fly, I found that you have to stay on the 'a's a little longer than normal during take off to keep her flying. The landing and flare was uneventful and fairly normal compared to others. It is quite fast, it turns quickly and looses height quickly during those turns. ( a bit like the Fusion, but not quite as responsive. ) I am not 100% sure why they attached the lines to the wing the way that they have, but I don't like it. One reason is if you damage a line, its off to Arofix rather than a quick 2 min field job. They are litrally sewn in to the wing. (no fabric loop) I personally think that all of the 'new age' wings are good now, there is little between them and the designs are very close to one another. All round, I think its a decent wing... the ONLY thing that would stop me buying one is the line attachment method to the wing. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_k Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 ... the ONLY thing that would stop me buying one is the line attachment method to the wing. It's all in the detail, I think that would stop me also. Cheers, Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stupidcelebrities Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 I don't like the sound of that either. I will have to wait and hear more about it and see what people have to say about the revo 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanman Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 ...I am not 100% sure why they attached the lines to the wing the way that they have, but I don't like it. One reason is if you damage a line, its off to Arofix rather than a quick 2 min field job. They are litrally sewn in to the wing. (no fabric loop)... APCO have been making wings like that for quite a while now. Supposedly it is for drag reduction. I don't like it either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyfreefly Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 Quote from Simon It is quite fast, it turns quickly and looses height quickly during those turns. ( a bit like the Fusion, but not quite as responsive. ) Thats odd .....I found it more responsive....than the fusion on the main brakes .....and most certainly...on the tip steering handles....I did reverse launches and forward launches (powererd forward) and it came up sweet...I didnt notice myself hanging on to the A risers any longer...in fact I flew it back to back with my fusion same day minutes apart to compare them.... so your findings puzzle me....Hey Ho.....I think I am the same weight as you as well Simon around 75kg Naked..... not that you are ever going to get the chance to see me like that still carnt wait to test the small though,,,, I too am not keen on sewing the lines in the wing either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbertflyer Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 Is it a regular situation for the 'uppers' to tear away from the sail? I've not seen before. Is it just a motorism (props catching lines)? Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 Quote from Simon It is quite fast, it turns quickly and looses height quickly during those turns. ( a bit like the Fusion, but not quite as responsive. ) Thats odd .....I found it more responsive....than the fusion on the main brakes .....and most certainly...on the tip steering handles....I did reverse launches and forward launches (powererd forward) and it came up sweet...I didnt notice myself hanging on to the A risers any longer...in fact I flew it back to back with my fusion same day minutes apart to compare them.... so your findings puzzle me....Hey Ho.....I think I am the same weight as you as well Simon around 75kg Naked..... not that you are ever going to get the chance to see me like that still carnt wait to test the small though,,,, I too am not keen on sewing the lines in the wing either What size Fusion do you fly? I have the 23. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_axb Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 I understand that people are concerned about the lines being sewn directly into the wing, but damage to upper lines is very rare and Apco believe the reduction in drag and inceased performance of not having 30 - 40 taped loops on the underside of the wing is worth it. The load tests have proved that this method is as strong as taped loops. I have never damaged or needed to replace an upper line/cascade on any of my wings after nearly 20 years of flying, but if your ground handling causes you to catch upper lines around the propeller you may want to consider buying an Apco Thrust HP (or other wing with taped loops) instead - cost of repairs will be less (or you could practice your ground handling). If you want the reduced drag an extra perfornance then lines (that can last as long as the nylon fabric) that go directly into the wing make the difference. Paul AXB Apco UK Rep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 Fair doo. I do like the idea of reduced drag of course. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyfreefly Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 yes I thought about that last night after I posted my post..it woke me up .(....(...at around 3am it was worrying me that much....)......)....... you fly a 23 and I as you know am on a 26 which is why I think You found the medium force less manoverable and I found it more manoverable......so the way I look at it the small force should be quicker and more manoverable.. ...roll on the test flight on the small force.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyfreefly Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 I dont also get the staying on the A lines........ perhaps that puzzle will wake me up in the middle of tonight on this video the guy never even touches the A lines........I know its ideal conditions in the video but its shows how easy it is to come up....I found the same... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 Each to there own mate. To be fair though, I do fly and ground handle every day for hours on end. I notice differences immediately and have the pleasure of flying most of the reflex wings that exist on a regular basis. Those were the things that I noticed. It's down to personal taste / technique I guess. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 I am not suggesting it's a bad thing either??? I just noticed it (along with the other guys) It's a clutch bite thing... you just have to get used to it. (like the Revo) SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibbio Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 I can say i have only flown the wing three times, first time a total disaster nothin broke or hurt but i was very lucky. all my own fault far too much force and effort in launching the wing the second and third time i found it ever so simple to launch both nill wind forward and i just slowly walked forward and up it came. one the third time i leg go of the A,s once the wing had left the ground and it follow all the way up. i was Amazed by how easy it came up. i have them on video if i can figure out how to upload them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 Upload to the tube and the link from here SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibbio Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 you mean youtube if so my daughter says she will sort it at the weekend, i tried twice apparently its too big or somethin, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 Yep, Get the kids to do it mate, its like another language f you don't know the process. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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