alan_k Posted March 12, 2010 Share Posted March 12, 2010 Learnt S**T loads since I found you lot. Gives you a warm feeling inside doesn't it Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgy Posted March 12, 2010 Share Posted March 12, 2010 Hi guys The Fusion was my first PPG wing BUT it was not my first wing as i free fly. Personaly i would not have gone for the Fusion if i had never flown before. I love my Fusion and since i got it i have not flown my ozone buzz Z PG wing. I feel safer on my Fusion and now my flying have come on leaps and bounds since owning the Fusion. I have to say that i have had a few minor tucks and have be thrown around in a windy SBF (sea breeze front) and the wing has not missed a beat!!!! At times i was sh!tting myself being thrown around the sky but i think if i wasnt there to put in the correct inputs i would have crashed!!! The fusion thermals like a dream but will also serges like a ba**ard when on slow trim and you have to dampen it. All that said if you have it on full trim its hands off all the way. If your new you won't be flying in strong condtions like i do sometimes. I would say keep your Fusion but i would not fly it untill you have at least 15hours flying under you belt and only fly in light thermal less days/evenings. borrow a mates wing! buy a cheap revo then sell it! Have at least one season on a beginner wing before the FUSION!!!! I think you somed it up yourself when you said it scares you when a beginner asks you to teach them to swoop!! you would'nt tell somene to buy a fast chute and teach them to swoop so why buy a Fusion!!! If you do choose the keep and fly the Fusion fly safe!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobra Posted March 12, 2010 Share Posted March 12, 2010 when i bought my wing last yr, i was looking on u tube etc at the cima k2 videos, to me this was the be all and end all wing. my instructor advised me to stay clear as not recognised in this country, so i did. has any one flown 1 and are they the be all and end all cracked up to be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgrant Posted March 12, 2010 Share Posted March 12, 2010 I'd say Sky paragliders (cima K2) are well recognised in this country, you see plenty on the South Downs being flown by good pilots. They have a good reputation. I'm waiting for a Sky Exite 3 harness to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
learner_driver Posted March 12, 2010 Share Posted March 12, 2010 a bit late to the party, Simon W is dead right about the fusion. to sum up why you may need experience please read about these bad situations http://www.expandingknowledge.com/Jerome/PG/Skill/All/J_Tips/English.htm#Collapses_and_Bad_Situations I do like this site, it will mentally prepare you for anything. A fusion will react worse than a begginners wing in any given situation, when it all goes wrong above you. I hope this helps someone Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieboy33 Posted March 12, 2010 Author Share Posted March 12, 2010 This is a tricky one.. I am currently teaching a group of 10 military pilots, 6 of them have 'canopy' time and 1000's of jumps. It is something I am faced with often..... How do you value /gauge / assess air time under a canopy against air time under a wing... Is it of any value? The only person I know who can answer that is Ed Coleman. Ed.... the lights on you mate SW Ok a few things i feel i need to answer. Hi Simon i find myself agreeing with you once again. to put a value on canopy time... i dont know the % but its v high 80-90% at a guess, of most skydivers use a canopy to get from A-B (opening to feet on the deck and packing) Even some of the most experienced skydivers i know do not "really" Pilot their canopy as just enjoy the ride to the ground. There are a few of us that really want to try and understand it, and surprisingly enough not all are young extreme sports fanatics. There are quite a few old and bold CRW pilots ( Canopy Relative Work) that do the exact opposite (we call them crew dogs) of which i like to say i was one. although younger that just use the plane ride and 3 sec,s of freefall time to get under a wing and then go crash into your mates... lol... ( well thats what it looks like sometimes...) and then some of us want to fly as small and fast a wing as possible to get that swoop landing spot on, 80 mph + with your feet flicking through long grass... wow even NOW just typing this my hair on the back of my neck is standing up and i wish i was jumping again.... )))) So yes somebody with a few thousand jumps has quite a bit of canopy flying but i know for a fact that doesnt always mean they are in the slightest bit clued up (or want to be) about their wing. I think you somed it up yourself when you said it scares you when a beginner asks you to teach them to swoop!! you would'nt tell somene to buy a fast chute and teach them to swoop so why buy a Fusion!!! If you do choose the keep and fly the Fusion fly safe!! Hi Morgy. this particular point i feel i must comment on, this is a prime reason i find it hard on forums to be completely understood as i type what i am thinking and cant reply to somebodys (quite right without prior knowledge) observations with out promt reply myself. I am. I Think.. a pretty modern thinker in the sport of canopy flying (skydiving swooping) To that end . Yes in some circumstances i would tell somebody to get a fast canopy and teach them to swoop on it (and have done) The old school thinking for swooping was at least 2000 jumps before you even thought about it... YOU WILL DIE... I know of 1 World Champion that was swooping from jump number 40.. yes 40.. So there it is i KNOW its possible to do, so CAN NOT tell somebody else that they cant either... You have no idea how many arguments this has got me into...lol.. I would then tell them this guy is pretty amazing and is 1 in a million (and lucky to be alive), they should really think it through again when they are sober but that said if they want to go down that route they MUST get training and learn from professionals ( A LOT) I did, luckily for me the army helped with the world champion coaches at the time so saved me a bundle in money and i also know that that training has at least 3 times saved my legs AT BEST.. My point here is i guess the advancement in training and knowledge. People have already made nearly all the mistakes possible and we learn from that. we have drills and skills we practice to keep us current and safe... A mindset that is all about self preservation and learning as safe as we can. I still have this mindset and want to bring that to my paramotoring, push myself to a higher level as that is where i do my best work and learn the fastest. I am not stupid enough to think it does not come without a higher risk. but I do like the phrase. (and try and live by it... Not just say it or write it) Lets not turn up at heavens gates looking old and bored but rather sliding through the gates of heaven sideway with your hair on fire screaming oh my god what a ride.. Thats pretty much how ive done things (im not nuts by the way...))) as an epitaph that would be a bit extreme (cool) but a bit extreme I have a very healthy view of mine, and others lives) im 39 and still in one piece, all be it the pillow lines take longer to fade and when i do get hurt it takes a hell of a lot longer to heal and hang overs last days not hrs... Sry Morgy as i could of quoted from a few posts but that one was just pretty relevant to me, I smiled when i read the rest of yr post.. made me check my tracking number on Fed Ex bummed i am gona be in Japan when it arrives.. not all bad as that will make 12 wind tunnels i have flown in and this ones military so quite exclusive I do really appreciate all the feedback.. negative and positive. as i know it is just people concerned for my safety and also the public image of this sport, its not good in any sport for people to get injured and end up all over the press as being dangerous. I take that fully on board as well.. Blue skies and let the wind blow really really strong BUT only indoors... yes i know that will probably be me Dave Wow just read that back (for once) thats really long sorry... I too have learned S**t loads from this club and hope to meet a few people when im up and about Ps: My girl friend is also taking up this sport and i am making here buy a GoFly.. 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edwardc Posted March 12, 2010 Share Posted March 12, 2010 I have been staying away from commenting on this post as an ex-skydiver but as my name has been mentioned by Simon I felt that I had to make a comment! Dave I started skydiving in the days when we had 5 cell docile canopies progressed through 9 cell canopies onto zero p and elliptical canopies (blue track) and on to the jonathans etc. When these fast, small canopies came out the responsible companies wouldn't even sell you one unless you had 2000 jumps! I have, unfortunately, witnessed a friend dying at Hibaldstow trying a swoop (peer pressure) and a good friend died last year trying to deal with an issue on a radical wing and screwed up (he had 4000 jumps). Paramotoring is a completely different sport and if you want to do swoops and 'ditch flying etc this is not the sport to take up. It is almost impossible to collapse a skydiving canopy nowadays due to the size, wing loadings and design. It is not the same with the comparatively large wings we use in paramotoring. I fly a Revolution and love the way it flys and handles but feel that I am going to be in a learning process for many, many hours yet before thinking of going anywhere near a Fusion. I can't advise you what to do as this is your choice but I think that the advise you are getting from others on the forum is well founded and well intentioned and thinking only of your safety. I feel that you would get a lot more from the learning process on a more stable wing than the Fusion. At least start your training on a more stable wing, speak to SimonW if you need any training advise or information. Hope things go okay and look forward to meeting you at one of our 'fly0ins' Regards Eddie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieboy33 Posted March 12, 2010 Author Share Posted March 12, 2010 Hi Ed. Very cool post thanks for adding your comments, i am taking everything people say on board be sure of that. i started skydiving in 91 and was the first to go through a raps course in Cyprus, 120 jumps later, got my first 120 stiletto. a purple bluetrack flying close to me while i was attempting a fast landing at a beech in florida took my mind of what i should of been concentrating on and i nearly buried myself that day on that beech... i cant say how lucky i was to survive at all let alone walk away with a thick ear from my boss and only a bruised ego... I too have lost friends swooping or hooking it in. That was the start of the learning curve about training and coaching. I am not saying i havent put a foot wrong since but thats the whole thing about training giving you the chance to spot something that is just not right soon enough to give you the chance to do something about it. The Fusion is in the post so not a lot i can do about that... i know i will not fly it until ive had training and im pretty sure that the guy who trains me will put me on a beginners wing first. I know everyone on here means well i think its a much more rounded community if that makes sense. well more than the skydiving community, which i love as well.. but there are some fruit cakes in that sport that im sure just wana push it beyond the safe edge... lol... Will for sure love to come to your fly ins one day. Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardc Posted March 12, 2010 Share Posted March 12, 2010 Dave I am sure you will love the sport. You can 'surf' a long way on a paramotor wing due to the incredible amount of lift you get compared to our skydiving canopies (although a lot slower!) It takes a bit of getting used to the very late flare though! I think that if you ask yourself the question 'would I have sold a Bluetrack to a new student' you will be able to make the comparison. Be safe and Blue Skies. Eddie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieboy33 Posted March 12, 2010 Author Share Posted March 12, 2010 I cant wait to be honest... never thought i would utter the words low and slow but im really looking forward to that. bit like a sponge at the moment soaking up all this info.. As for the BlueTrak to student thing... then no is the obvious answer, but then at its time it was the equivalent of a Pd Velocity in todays canopies. It was 1 of the fastest canopies around im sure you will agree... with my little knowledge i still feel the Fusion is in no way at the edge of the most extreme para gliding or motoring wing ? I could be wrong of course ... It goes without saying that it should and will be treated with the greatest respect... anything that goes up should be. I know after being to a few sites im going to really enjoy myself and its all the better because she will be with me and not waiting for me to get in on nice days to go for a walk or anything...lol.. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgy Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 Hi Dave where are you based?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieboy33 Posted March 14, 2010 Author Share Posted March 14, 2010 Hi. At the moment near Bedford but will probably move soon towarda nothampton way. And you. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgy Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 My location is earnley chichester. its under my user name and photo!!!! you should add yours to your profile too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgy Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 Hi Dave I know now that all the comments you have made that your not some nutter that has seen the sport and just wants the best kit out there and you not one of those guy's who thinks its looks easy so it must be and i don't need training. Personaly i think good on you for buying a fusion as it is one of the best wings out there "imo" It is safe it does land slower than a revo. But i still think that you cant comment on and i dont think you should have bought a wing UNTILL you have had training and have experienced paramotoring for real. SORRY if that sounds bad as i dont mean it to. 1 ok your a good sky diver with x amount of jumps and know how to control a canopy. But you have 0 hours flight time. 2 Your new to the sport your not going to be throwing your fusion around the sky doing wing overs,spirals etc. so you dont need the fusions handling. so a revo would be good. 3 you dont need a PPG/PG wing like the fusion as you dont free fly. (i think you can free fly with a revo anyway) 4 I think the revo has almost the same top end speed as the fusion. so your not going to be left behind when flying with others. I have one of the fastest accelerating cars you can buy on the market BUT that wouldn't mean i would go out and buy a hayabusa turbo and think just because i have past my bike test i will be ok to ride it "i think i would die" as i have no bike exp. I hope you get on great with the fusion and i look forward to meeting you at a fly in soon!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardc Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Morgy Not sure about the 0 flight time. A 1000 jumps with approx 5 minutes under canopy = 83 hours flying time and a 1000 landings! Unfortunately, taking off is the hard part Eddie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel_d. Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 How much do you weigh Davieboy? I may be looking for a home for my Rad MXL with spare cage and prop. Nige (in Northampton, as it happens) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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