Safer wings

[fanman]

I guess the point I'm trying to get across to new guys is that when choosing a reflex wing it's not just a case of who has the best colour scheme or what wing your mates fly. You need to understand what exactly you intend to do with it, what part of the trim range do you mostly expect to fly in and how involved do you want to actually be in the flying process.

If you understand how reflex works and know when it is present in your wing then you should change your flying technique accordingly. Unfortunately many experienced people don't understand this fact.

I fully agree with Vince about the Synth and the Revo probably being the best reflex wings out there for low airtime pilots (don't know enough about the Thrust HP) however if being instructed on a Revo then the pilot should be being taught to fly with brake pressure when below maillons level in accordance with the manual. If being instructed on a Synth then the pilot should leave the wing alone at all trim settings unless the air movement becomes so rough that the pilot chooses to either let out trim or take manual control of keeping the wing overhead. If this is the case should the new pilot be airborne in those conditions?

Finally it is worth noting that on the Revo the non-Reflex trim area is the flight regime where AFNOR gave 'standard' certification while the Reflex regime hardly surprisingly came out as 'performance'. The reflex 'performance' region of trim setting is the area where the manufacturer has initially prevented use by sewing up the trimmers so that the pilot takes responsibility for entering this part of the flight envelope by undoing the stitching.

[bignos]

still not clear on the negative on the synth, when should it be used? takeoff?

[matt_k]

I might take up bowls! LOL

Its really helpful to read these comments and i will certainly re invest in more tuition and advise when i get my reflex wing as i was taught and learnt on a non reflex wing.

[fanman]

still not clear on the negative on the synth, when should it be used? takeoff?

By negative do you mean the fast side of the trim range? I occasionally fly a Synthesis and I generally launch it on 2 units fast trim for zero wind and up to 5 units fast on windy days. If you are uncertain then use zero for most days and a little bit of fast (3 units) if windy. The reason I use a bit of fast trim is because it pops up so much easier with faster trim. It doesn't launch as nicely if you go to full slow trim and frankly it's not necessary as that wing pops off the ground at such slow speed anyway, even on faster trim settings.

[bignos]

no, on mine the trimmers go from -2(or3?) past zero up to what ever

[fanman]

Are you sure they say a negative number or are they just giving a positive number in blue and a positive number in red? Are you implying that the 'minus' figure is slow trim? I'm not aware that '-2' is actually Dudek (or any manufacturers) terminology. If you are talking about trim settings slower than take off then there is no good reason to launch like that on a Synthesis (although you would on a Nucleon). You can land like with trimmers full slow if you wish (it feels a bit mushy like a PG wing) but I can't think of a good reason why you would.

[custom-vince]

[custom-vince]

As per diagram. Fully closed trimmers is paraglider mode and everything beyond that is heading for and ''Introducing'' reflex. Not usable reflex that you can rely on (until you get past neutral) but it is already beyond standard paraglider mode and flying faster with your weight more forward on the wing.

I often find myself flying in the neutral mode when maneuvering as the wing has more speed and a nice carve to the turn, just a fun setting. I go full reflex for A to B. Full paraglider mode when I switch off the engine. I land on all sorts of trim settings just to make it fun, from full slow to full fast for a long foot drag.

[fanman]

But 'heading for reflex' is not actually reflex. The relationship between angle of attack and center of pressure movement reverses dependent on whether the profile is reflexed or not. So you either take a hands off approach or not. The delineating point is maillons level on the Revo and the Action GT. take off setting is below this so there is no reflex.

This brings up the interesting point that is highly contentious is in the Fusion manual. The same diagram (Page 20) now claims that slow trim is a 'flapped reflex section'!!! This is a contradiction in terms because the moment you apply flap to a reflex section then it is no longer a reflex section! In fact there is a term called 'reflex flap' on conventional airfoils which describes taking a regular section and giving it a reflex profile by deflecting the training edge up! Also the diagram shows a non-reflex section until maillons level, just like the case with the Revo and the Action GT.

[custom-vince]

I see it as a play on words, a way of describing what is happening, call it what you like. Non reflex, flapped reflex, paraglider mode its all the same thing in this context, maybe not in another situation but when describing soft foil paraglider wing I think it is fair.

I have flown and do fly hands off on a paraglider, and do so in paraglider mode on my reflex wing. Not in rough air where you would need to be hands on or reflexed. Reflex is a bonus tool to have not a necessity.

Yes there is a change over point on the wing where you go from hands off to hands on. On my fusion it is clearly marked in red area and green area. The neutral line is the change over point it seems fairly simple to me, why complicate it. Its marked on the trimmers and it works.

[fanman]

Can you verify what trim setting the red to green division line is please. If it is faster than take off (in fact where the maillons are level) then I can agree. If it is at take off then I can't.

You and many people fly un-reflexed reflex wings and PG wings hands off under power and yes most of the time there is no issue BUT if the wing hangs back you have nothing left in your arsenal to counter this. You are also not flying the wing as the manual tells you to when in this trim range.

Reflex wings are becoming a mainstream of our sport, yet almost no one understands how they work and more importantly how to use it. Regrettably the description in the Fusion manual is not only vague and confusing it also makes an elevator analogy that bears no relevance to what is actually happening.

[custom-vince]

Yes on my Fusion the red to green line is faster than recommended take off setting.

Flying hands off under power is never regarded as the best thing to do, but you do have some control over pitch with care full use of the throttle, I learnt to fly on paragliders which is why I would recommend reflex to any powered pilot, under power staying in some reflex.

I think it can be difficult to explain what is happening and why and when to use reflex in simple to understand language which is why the manual has some strange reference's.

As a rep for Paramania we always have a hand over to the end customer and explain the trimmers in hand to show exactly how to use them and what the effects are. Paramania are putting a new system in place which will ensure that with all new wing sales this exact process will happen which is a good thing.

2nd hand ebay sales, this is where the problems will occur as we have no control over this.