Guest Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 OK, I spent the day looking for a Paramotor (as though I were going to buy one) no real reason, I just thought it was time to see what was new... I am just amazed at how much the price of kit has gone through the roof over the last 18-24 months!!! Motors in particular have jumped up a staggering amount. I am all for the development of kit for Paramotors to reduce the price (think kit car) The other good reason for this development (being headed up by Bailey as far as I can see) is that the customer can buy the parts as the funds are in. Maybe collectively we could come up with an entry level unit and bring things back to a price which makes the sport attractive to a greater number of people. I dunno maybe it's just a rant but why not? People here have built motors, many more are capable of doing so... I am sure it could be done. A PMC Paramotor for the entry level pilot. Thoughts??? SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_b Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 Parajet cage/frame with netting, different motors depending on preference and weight. It would all depend on what prices we could get the bits for. Would not want to make a frame cage and sell it to some one else unless I had tested it for at least 100+ hours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 Why not use the Skybolt frame it's tried and tested. It's strong, easy to build/repair can be adapted to fit almost any engine and the plans are available for free, job done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jock Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 Why not use the Skybolt frame it's tried and tested. It's strong, easy to build/repair can be adapted to fit almost any engine and the plans are available for free, job done! I second that, its a cracking frame lots of happy yanks flying them.no welds.finding different engines wont be a prob/2 stroke or 4 stroke, me i would say skybolt and kx80 engine for a 2 stroke/gx200/etc. gy6 4 valve head 4 stroke. the gx or 16hp wiltec electric start engines needs weight reduction but durable...oh to build///// Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_b Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 Why not use the Skybolt frame it's tried and tested. It's strong, easy to build/repair can be adapted to fit almost any engine and the plans are available for free, job done! I second that, its a cracking frame lots of happy yanks flying them.no welds.finding different engines wont be a prob/2 stroke or 4 stroke, me i would say skybolt and kx80 engine for a 2 stroke/gx200/etc. gy6 4 valve head 4 stroke. the gx or 16hp wiltec electric start engines needs weight reduction but durable...oh to build///// Careful what you say Jock, you may be asked to build one to see what it turns out like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jock Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 Why not use the Skybolt frame it's tried and tested. It's strong, easy to build/repair can be adapted to fit almost any engine and the plans are available for free, job done! I second that, its a cracking frame lots of happy yanks flying them.no welds.finding different engines wont be a prob/2 stroke or 4 stroke, me i would say skybolt and kx80 engine for a 2 stroke/gx200/etc. gy6 4 valve head 4 stroke. the gx or 16hp wiltec electric start engines needs weight reduction but durable...oh to build///// Careful what you say Jock, you may be asked to build one to see what it turns out like pic speaks for its selft bags of power dk type frame... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_k Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 Simon have you seen the new 4 stroke from Paul Haxby, only £2995 Looks the dogs danglies IMHO. Cheers, Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jock Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 Why not use the Skybolt frame it's tried and tested. It's strong, easy to build/repair can be adapted to fit almost any engine and the plans are available for free, job done! I second that, its a cracking frame lots of happy yanks flying them.no welds.finding different engines wont be a prob/2 stroke or 4 stroke, me i would say skybolt and kx80 engine for a 2 stroke/gx200/etc. gy6 4 valve head 4 stroke. the gx or 16hp wiltec electric start engines needs weight reduction but durable...oh to build///// Careful what you say Jock, you may be asked to build one to see what it turns out like PETE, I SHALL RISE TO THE QUOTE.THE KX80 WAS ALWAYS MY FIRST CHOICE.I SHALL DO A SKYBOLT FRAME/KX ENGINE WITH LOW HANG POINTS,NOW ANY BANK ROBBERS ON HERE ///// Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surrey-dad Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 Simon have you seen the new 4 stroke from Paul Haxby, only £2995 Looks the dogs danglies IMHO. Cheers, Alan Wow - that's more like it! That's a very nice looking machine. Looks quite compact for a 4stroke - wonder how heavy it is. Any more details on the spec Alan? Do you get wafers or a set of spanners with it Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paramotormike Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 Copied from the AXB Website. AXB Merlin FS1 (Four Stroke) Paramotor - 175cc 4 stroke engine Electric start Fully collapsible stainless steel frame 17hp at 7400rpm 56kg static thrust 32.8kg dry weight 36.2kg with battery & harness 2 –3 litres per hour fuel consumption 9.5 litre tank (with the option for larger capacity fuel tanks) Introductory price - £2995 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paramotormike Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 Looks good. No low hang point option though, only high. Heavy too. Great fuel consumption though. And look at that price! Only £2995.00 Cheers Mikey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggydec Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 Looks good.No low hang point option though, only high. Heavy too. Great fuel consumption though. And look at that price! Only £2995.00 Cheers Mikey And ive seen it flying tandem no probs.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggydec Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 and ive seen it flying tandem no probs..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer_Dave Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 56 kgs of static thrust doesn't seem alot for tandem flying. I'm sure there's something special about the torque of a fourstroke, that gives it a very usable power delivery for spinning a prop. The extra weight might not be a problem if you consider that you might only have to carry just over half the fuel, either. This unit @ less than £ 3000 does look very attractive, if reliable and quiet. I'd like to try one. Been a forstroke fan for years really. DG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcusFlyer Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Interesting topic. I also find the price of paramotors quite astounding. Not so much the entire product but more the engine specifically. I should say that I bought my unit brand new from PAP and am perfectly happy with it and the after sales service. I valued the fact that I was buying into a tried and tested product with many of the design flaws ironed out etc. but as I said it seems the engine makes up a good proportion of the cost and I don't fully understand why the power units are so expensive. Not directly comparable but I have had a lot of r/c planes and cars. A good quality OS 0.6 cubic inch motor would set you back perhaps £120 for a plane. Much smaller than a Top 80 but same idea very light, very high performance 2 stroke. One of my track r/c cars had a top comp engine (ceramic head, multi port) and that was £180. Paramotor engines need to maximise power to weight, fair enough, but so do comp r/c car engines. I just don't see the £2000 difference between the two. Often miniturisation would cost more. The 2 stroke engine in my strimmer was £30 brand new. Yes you need to pour more metal into the bigger moulds etc but I can't see that making a great impact on the deficit. I had to strip my Top 80 down as far as removing the barrel (with permission from PAP) to investigate an issue found whilst under warrantly. If this or any other paramotor engine was a titanium ceramic inconel space shuttle constucted piece of next generation kit then I wouldn't be asking this question, but they most certainly aren't. I read somewhere recently that the Top80 unit - if you were able to buy it individually costs over £2000. As I said I'm perfectly happy with my motor and engine and the after sales service I've had but I don't understand the cost of these engines which seem to be the main cause of why new motors appear to cost far more than the sum of their parts. Happy to be corrected! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tj Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 Just out of interest, what would 'a more reasonable price' be roughly? Tj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spigot Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 Depends on how rough you want Say you were to source all the separate components yourself for a 175cc 2T air cooled motor .Buying good quality motorcycle, Jap or Italian tested parts. Paying all taxes and shipping you would be looking at around a grand for most the bits..... The expensive bit and the only part not already mass produced for the motorcycle industry is the crank case. And although its CnC`d from a £80 lump of billet or rough cast, its cost the motor manufacturers thousands of sqid and man hours to design, test, and adjust for the best performance, weight saving, mounting points, re-drive options and structural reliability. With such a small market to cater for, the cost understandably gets passed on. I`ve not seen any prices or asked. But £700 at least would be a guess. Add final assembly, in house machining of pulleys/mounts, tuning the exhaust, testing, marketing and a little honest profit....That gives you little change out of £2.5 grand Failing that lob a couple of pulleys and a prop on an old sump pump that's been chuffing for years (and very well I might add) and you have a more than reasonable motor for half the price. Yes its all very expensive.....but bloody good fun Colin B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer_Dave Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 They are a bit dear to buy. Some cost alot to repair and renew parts (like propellors) after you've made the initial purchase. You need to add the 2 costs together to work out the true cost of flying one. If you over stretch yourself, financially, to buy one , the last thing you want is further costs that you hadn't envisaged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcusFlyer Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 Anyone thought about this as a possible half-way house between building your own / buying new? I was thinking about it before buying my new motor. 1. Brand new RADNE Raket 120 Aero with clutch reduction drive and exhaust When I had the old RAD the engine never missed a beat, started first time every time, plenty of power with the right prop I reckon. Even has nice coloured anodised thingy going on. But noisy in my experience - perhaps research a better exhaust. 2. Aerodeck composite frame as seen on ebay, designed to easily accommodate a range of the most popular engines I have no idea if these are any good but I really like the look / idea. 3. New PAP harness (skydragons) Cost: Engine - £850ish (see Radne website) Frame - £795 (see ebay) Harness - £299 (see Sky Dragons website) Total = £1944 For a brand new set up with electric start and choice of low or high hang points without any really difficult building effort. Good, proven engine with readily available spares. Not sure how good the final result would be but would definitely look into this if I was looking for a new motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazgrace Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 ArcusFlyer this is what im looking to do whats your views on it ?? and is it fairly straight forward to put it all together ?? engine and throttle and all that . just worried i wont be able to do it or might screw it up !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jock Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 GO FOR IT YOU CAN BUY THE RAD WITH REDUCTION. MAKE SURE ITS THE PPG REDUCTION AND NOT FLPHG.AREODECK LOOKS NICE I DONT KNOW ANYONE WHOS FLYING ONE BUT THERE ARE CHEAPER FRAMES IE AXB OR PARAMOTORSHOP.BUT THEY ALL DO THE JOB,THROTTLE MAKE ONE OR BUY ONE FROM RADPARAMOTORS.FUEL TANK CHEAP GO KART ONE AS FITTED TO MANY PPG...PAP HARNESS..THE RAD IS BULLET PROOF AND LIGHT EASY TO GET SPARES,I WOULD SAY USE A 130 PROP, 4 ENGINE RUBBERS RAD OR SOURCE YOUR OWN. PLUS LOTS OF RAD ENGINES AROUND SECOND HAND..NEW RAD ENGINE AROUND £850-HARNESS-£300-frame £500-800-tank-£60 or less throttle £120 ish or cheaper.you should get one built around the £1500-1800...if useing all new bits/but then you can get a decent second hand ppg around £2000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazgrace Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 thanks i have ordered the cage now . looks ok but will see when i comes it has every thing with it tank throttle ect and cruise control so it says so are the engines easy to get second hand, looked at this one its about just over a 1000 delivered and tax on it .http://www.radne.se/Store/Product/Produ ... tNo=3201-4 The place where im getting the cage said that, that engine has 5 engine bolts or some thing so might have to put another engine mount /plate on the chassis . not sure how i go about it so soon i will be asking for help .. I know what your saying about a second hand one for around 2,000 but is would be second hand and has it had any problems , is engine ok!!. But then they are expensive new already done . this way i thought i could break the cost up .1st get cage then get that new engine. For around 2,000 its all new equipment and new engine and with putting it together i get experiance of how it all goes . Sort of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobra Posted April 26, 2010 Share Posted April 26, 2010 my friend has just done a diy paramotor. simmonini mini 2 with exhaust reduction etc and prop £1700. prop-se cage, tank harness, hang points, throttle etc £720. engine arrived direct from factory in 3 days, the rest from prop-se took 8 days, assembling it with him tomorrow. why pay more than £4K when you can have the dogs b's for that price Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
touch107fm Posted April 26, 2010 Share Posted April 26, 2010 my friend has just done a diy paramotor. simmonini mini 2 with exhaust reduction etc and prop £1700. prop-se cage, tank harness, hang points, throttle etc £720. engine arrived direct from factory in 3 days, the rest from prop-se took 8 days, assembling it with him tomorrow. why pay more than £4K when you can have the dogs b's for that price Sounds good. Where did he get his frame, prop, Harness etc from.. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobra Posted April 27, 2010 Share Posted April 27, 2010 in the text, www.prop-se.com sweden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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