playlist Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 what do you think about the parajet titanium special edition,1.4kgs lighter sounds very attractive to me,i am about to make my first purchase of a motor.presently a free flyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgy Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 Titanium is all good untill you break it!! then its very expensive to replace and much harder to repair. I was going to go for it on my bailey v3 but in the end i didnt think it was worth the extra cost. If you come from free flight your ground handling should be good and once the wing is in the air and your running you dont feel the extra wieght at all i have had no problems with 32kg+ except when i had to run up hill at the flag pole on day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 I have the Titanium frame for the school motor. I recon 'breaking' a titanium frame, would leave you with more to worry about than the cost of replacing it, they are super strong. IF you do manage to 'bend' it, it bends back with relative ease. Titanium is a springy metal an perfect for the job in my opinion. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jean-christophe Posted April 14, 2010 Share Posted April 14, 2010 ... i have had no problems with 32kg+ ... Hi all, I didn't see this post before ... not sure to understand ! My problem : I just recieved my Compact special edition yesterday, and as it seemed heavy, I weighed it : 33,2kg dry ! It is said to have a weigh of 26-1.4=24,6kg dry ... How such a mistake can exist ? Looking for explainations ... My back can't stand for such a weigh ... I'll never fly it. My dream becomes a nightmare ! What do you think of it ? JC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgy Posted April 14, 2010 Share Posted April 14, 2010 Hi I am not sure but i think the dry wieght is without the harness pluss if you now have it they would have fulled it with oil as well so not dry. I am not sure about the harness but i am sure some one will be able to explain why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jean-christophe Posted April 14, 2010 Share Posted April 14, 2010 Maybe you're right for the harness : 2.9kg ... For the fuel, it's really empty, just the carburator and pipes cant contain a little, so about less than 100g. I made new measurements to be sure : lowest =32,1 ;average = 32,5 kg If minus 3kg for harness and fuel = more than 29 kg. Still far from 24.6 kg ! Most of all, we know that all are lying a little about weights ; but when you argue with "1.4 kg lighter" for the special edition, you are expected to be more serious . I think such a precision face to such a difference is mislead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_P Posted April 15, 2010 Share Posted April 15, 2010 I am not sure how UK consumer law would apply in a case where the item was presumably shipped to France. But if it were a UK consumer who had been misled by erroneous advertising claims, then you would be entitled to a refund of your money, if the item was not as described. Does credit card purchase protection include such circumstances. Jean-Christophe, I would be tempted to check all of the advertising claims made by the company involved, and in the event your purchase did not match the claims made, I would look into legal recourse (unless of course the vendor is prepared to rectify the situation themselves). Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendmeroundthehedge Posted April 15, 2010 Share Posted April 15, 2010 Good call Phil. All manufacturers like to use big numbers whether it be bike, car or whatever until it comes to fuel consumption, or in the case of paramotors weight/thrust/fuel consumption. Ask for your money back. This is by far the worst sport I have got into, it is oozing with BS. This may be twisted, but I'm too old to care! Kev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jean-christophe Posted April 15, 2010 Share Posted April 15, 2010 Specifications : http://www.flyvolution.com/range/compact Extract from the limited edition specification sheet : " The Volution 500 Limited Edition has been given a striking orange cage with black anodised parts and chassis, and is fitted with a SupAir harness - all of which form only part of an impressive visual presence that matches all its engineering brilliance. With a modified crank case and shaft, the Volution 500 Limited Edition not only boasts more power but is 1.4kg lighter. Volution 500 Highlights • Unique colour scheme • Modified crank case • Modified crank shaft • Improved cage connectors • Fitted with Sup-Air harness • 1.4kg lighter • Limited edition Parajet flying jacket " --- I had an answer today via my dealer : yesterday, Parajet has weighed and confirms the difference ; They say it's because the specification sheet has not been updated since previous series (I don't understand how they can justify 1.4 kg lighter if they didn't check the weigh !). No problem to refund ,I "just" have to send back the paramotor (I went 400km from home to take the paramotor at my dealer's shop, and let the packaging there ... Back home, I have to make my own packaging,and pay for transport !). They said they did not really understand my reaction ... but accepted to cancel all. I'm fully disapointed ; still can't understand such a situation. I hope it will end quickly now. I do my best to send the material tomorrow ... and wait for my money back. Also hope the specification sheet will be updated not to mislead anyone anymore. Thank you for the help and advices. I will post to confirm all has well finished. JC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgy Posted April 15, 2010 Share Posted April 15, 2010 I personaly dont think there is much between alot of the motors. I fly with a bailey and i cope with the wieght ok. I have flown with a parajet once and i dont think there is much in it to be honest. but this was not back to back and there was a while in between so not a fair test. I think if you need a light motor then there are a few out there. personaly i would try before you buy never go one claims made buy the makers. That goes for cars bike and paramotors..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanman Posted April 16, 2010 Share Posted April 16, 2010 Morgy, are you saying you have flown a Parajet once and all the rest of your flights are on Your Bailey? If so then you have only ever flown machines weighing around 33kg. You wouldn't only ever drive a Ford Fiesta and a Vauxhall Corsa and announce that all cars are much the same. You should test fly one of the various machines out there weighing 10+kg less than your current machine. You might be very surprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgy Posted April 16, 2010 Share Posted April 16, 2010 I said alot not all machines i know there are alot out there that do come in at well under 30kg's and i did say i have only flown a parajet once. I was only comparing it to my bailey not all other motors I was just trying to make a point that they all claim to be xxkg's but always come in more.. I forgot about one more motor i have flown a radne racket.. "still heavy" I have also picked up and had on my back a few others but not flown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jean-christophe Posted April 16, 2010 Share Posted April 16, 2010 ... we know that all are lying a little about weights ; but when you argue with "1.4 kg lighter" for the special edition, you are expected to be more serious ... ... they all claim to be xxkg's but always come in more... We all agree with the idea that they (nearly) all are lying with weight, which is part of the "game" ... but do you consider a 30% extra value is acceptable ? I don't. Would it be a correct idea to complete the list of paramotor with the real weight ? Maybe with other specifications ? or is it unapropriate ?(Simon W?) JC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_b Posted April 16, 2010 Share Posted April 16, 2010 ... we know that all are lying a little about weights ; but when you argue with "1.4 kg lighter" for the special edition, you are expected to be more serious ... ... they all claim to be xxkg's but always come in more... We all agree with the idea that they (nearly) all are lying with weight, which is part of the "game" ... but do you consider a 30% extra value is acceptable ? I don't. Would it be a correct idea to complete the list of paramotor with the real weight ? Maybe with other specifications ? or is it unapropriate ?(Simon W?) JC This could be done BUT you would have to have everyone that does it to be honest about it. The unit should be ready to fly with out any fuel or reserve ect attached Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer_Dave Posted April 16, 2010 Share Posted April 16, 2010 Good idea gents. Let me step up first. Flat-Top 200 with 2 blade prop 29 kilos dry weight. approx 80 kg thrust (same as manufacturers claimed weight) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jean-christophe Posted April 16, 2010 Share Posted April 16, 2010 I think I should open a new topic ... this has now to separated from "Volution special edition" I do it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savage Posted April 16, 2010 Share Posted April 16, 2010 The motor weight table would need to have several boxes for each machine, so that more than one person can input the dry weight of the motor and any false claims would soon be weeded out. Jean-Christophe, I am sorry you have had to suffer this episode. Not all manufactures are the same. Please go and have a test fly on a Miniplane with a 130 prop, it produces about the same power and weighs a genuine 19.5 to 20.5 Kgs (depending on hangpoint set up), so your wing will be carrying 13+Kg less and you'll also need to carry far less fuel to fly. Additionally, you need to read the following web page- http://www.easytorecall.com/returning_goods.htm 'Changing your mind' Paragraphs 9(ish) and 'Sale of Goods Act' paragraph 2. These laws were made EU wide a few years ago. Stuart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jean-christophe Posted April 16, 2010 Share Posted April 16, 2010 Thank you for that. I have learnt on a miniplane ; I know it very well. I just blame it to look like DIY and its cage is not convenient. A friend of mine bought one last year : he has weighed it : a little less than 18,5 kg (expected to weigh 18 kg) which is very interesting (and honest) About my situation : I didn't buy it on the internet but via a dealer. He asked me to send back the material, and then he will refund me. Not sure it's correct, but I want to forget all this as quickly as possible, so do what he asks me to. JC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanman Posted April 16, 2010 Share Posted April 16, 2010 Morgy, sorry I didn't mean to imply I was having a pop at you. Bailey have always been very good at being honest about the weight of their machine and have always taken flak for being considered heavy. It's time the truth came out that although they are heavy compared to some there are many that are heavier still. Time for a bit of fairness. It's also a very good frame that shows the importance of matching thrustline with hang point and that swing arms aren't as necessary as many believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spigot Posted April 16, 2010 Share Posted April 16, 2010 Just out of interest. What scales are we using to weigh motors? After I built my Parajet / Black devil hybrid. I took it to work to weigh on one of our baggage scales. We have four sets each calibrated every 6-12 months. I weighed it on two sets just because they are next to each other. I do work in an air terminal With a sup-air high hang point harness and approx 2 ltr of fuel.....30kg dead So. Allowing for a slightly different engine and exhaust. My heavier engine mounting plate, back plate and electrics. I would say Parajets 26kg for a standard compact is pretty much on the money. Just to be sure I`m going to nick SW`s titanium on Sunday and check that. I`m all for Bashing manufacturers claims, But lets make sure our facts (Calibrated scales) are right first. Colin B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jean-christophe Posted April 16, 2010 Share Posted April 16, 2010 ... But lets make sure our facts (Calibrated scales) are right first... Colin B Don't forget : ... yesterday, Parajet has weighed and confirms the difference That's what my dealer told me ! JC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_P Posted April 16, 2010 Share Posted April 16, 2010 Well checking the calibration of your scales is no problem, just check weigh with a known volume of water. I don't think anyone is going to get too uppity about +/- half a kilo or so. Modern bathroom scales are actually surprisingly accurate and consistent, and many will let you 'tare' so water containers could be excluded from test results. I'm all for kicking the BS into touch, and as long as we are honest and accurate, the manufacturers that end up with egg on their faces (sorry Jean-Christophe, that's an English euphemism) have no-one but themselves to blame. It'll be doing the flying community a great service, so lets not have any of this 'oh we mustn't upset anyone' attitude. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spigot Posted April 16, 2010 Share Posted April 16, 2010 Yup... You can almost see how Parajet have messed up the standard volution weight with the titanium version and come out with a special edition That's Bad drills. And to be honest, more than a valid reason to send it back and have your courier and mileage cost returned. Still Cant figure out why it would be 3+ kgs heavier than a standard volution though? What they using? Lead based paint? Colin B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jean-christophe Posted April 16, 2010 Share Posted April 16, 2010 ... What they using? Lead based paint?.../quote]Thank you : I was so disapointed for 2 days with all this that I had forgotten how to smile ... done ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave24 Posted April 17, 2010 Share Posted April 17, 2010 I had made the decision to buy a Parajet Compact Special Edition (£4,450 - not cheap) because it claimed to be under 25kg (i.e. it claimed to be 1.4kg lighter than the standard Compact which claimed to weigh 26kg). Fortunately I was warned by an experienced flyer that the Parajet figures were "misleading". What you say seems to confirm this. I would have been extremely angry if I had spent all that money and then found that the paramotor was actually 33kg+. If Parajet are misleading people about the weight of their paramotors then this is wrong and they (and people selling them) should be (1) ashamed of themselves and (2) strung up. Look at the Parajet web-site, the advert shows a complete paramotor with harness (including electric start) for between 25kg and 27kg depending on (Volution) model. If this is wrong, then sort it out now. I see a lot of people slagging off Flat Top and it's owner's "outrageous claims". However, I see from this forum that claimed weights for FTs are the same as actual weights. So I say to dealers - no more slagging off anyone else's product until you get your own house in order. Paramotor producers need to get their act together, because lying to make a sale will kill the sport and their businesses. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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