Pete Baldwins help is requested

[edwardc]

Pete

As you are aware I had a slight mishap at the weekend.

Unfortunately my cage was dented as the following pictures show:

My questions are will I have to heat it up to straighten it?

Will it be okay to leave it?

There is always a risk that I will break or crack the weld but should I have a go at hammering it straight?

What do you (or anyone else) think?

Cheers

Eddie

[pete_b]

If the prop is central in the cage and does not come close anywhere then you could leave it.

You can bend it back cold, I would clamp it in such a way that you would just need gentle hammering to straighten it make sure you use soft wood for the clamping on the frame then you will not dent it.

If it does crack a good welding / engineering shop will have a TIG unit to repair.

Do not use mig , it will hold but will not be as strong or as nice looking.

If you are not sure about any of it and have time (ie shite weather) we could sort something out.

[edwardc]

Thanks Pete.

I think my main concern is that the tube is a bit kinked where the bend is and hammering it back will just kink the metal more.

Will have to put it back together and take a look but I think the cage is also slightly out of shape!

Will take a look tomorrow and might still have to get it to you to sort out.

I hear your rates are very reasonable and there are many different ways to pay!!! LOL

Cheers mate

[pete_b]

Thanks Pete.

I think my main concern is that the tube is a bit kinked where the bend is and hammering it back will just kink the metal more.

Will have to put it back together and take a look but I think the cage is also slightly out of shape!

Will take a look tomorrow and might still have to get it to you to sort out.

I hear your rates are very reasonable and there are many different ways to pay!!! LOL

Cheers mate

Do you REALLY want to know how you have to pay me

No prob lem anytime Ed

[edwardc]

I was hoping that money would be enough

[pete_b]

I was hoping that money would be enough

Root of all evil that stuff.

I was thinking more like a couple of beers

[pete_b]

I can hear the sigh of relief all the way down here

[edwardc]

Disappointment more like!!!

[pete_b]

Disappointment more like!!!

[Gulfstream1]

Eddie - can I offer an alternative suggestion: no hammer or impact type tool required (I hate impact type tools and heat – neither do the structure of alloys & steels any good)

Required

- suitable length of 2” x 2”

- suitable length of 1 ½” steel water pipe/tube

- 4 – 6 strong pipe clamps

- a couple plywood/ chipboard or similar off-cuts – about 4” x 8” in size (or whatever size is required)

1) Drill the timber (yellow lines in the altered photo) length wise with a wood auger as close to the cage tubing diameter as possible, but keeping the diameter of the drilled hole slightly smaller than the cage tubing. This timber is used to ensure the force applied to re-bend the frame tube is spread as equally as possible over the entire OD & length of tubing been bent - minimising localised stress build up and the likely-hood of "cold-work" cracking occurring later.

2) Cut/Split the drilled timber length wise

3) Lay the 4” x 8” sections of plyboard(the black stripped oblongs - whatever the best dimensions have to be) over the bottom section of tubing (the section I have highlight in red), and clamp it down to a worksurface of sorts (kitchen table – management permitting!!). You’ll more than likely find that a couple clamps will need to be applied where the yellow dots are, as this is going to be the first area to want to bend, which is exactly what you want to avoid.

4) Weld up “lever” using the steel water pipe/tubing (blue lines in the altered photo) to suitable lengths – and brace it at suitable points with an extra length of tubing.

5) Using pipe clamps, clamp (black outlined small white oblong boxes in the altered photo) the timber either side of the Cage tubing – keeping the split in the 2" x 2" timber tube support at right angles to the direction you are going to be bending. Tip - you want the inner piece of timber (the piece on the left hand side in the photo to go all the way up to the cross-brace) - this will move/keep any end forces (can't think of a better way to describe it) right up at the top where the cross-brace is.

6) Clamp the “lever” to this timber tube support

…... and the rest I think is obvious: apply force to bend the lever outwards/downwards in small increments only so much much as is needed to get a “feel” for, and overcome the “spring-back” that is going to occur. Keep repeating till the bend is removed.

CAUTION - avoid over-bending, and then having to bend back – it will lead to excessive “cold-working” of the tube and induce a weak spot where fatigue will build up over time and result in cracking.

I hope you find this useful - even if somewhat long winded.

All the best.

Chris

[edwardc]

Blimey Chris, the people on this forum (most of them anyway) really are helpful.

That reply must have taken ages and I am very gratefull for the ideas.

I will probably use a different form of lever but otherwise some great ideas.

Thanks very much

Eddie

[Gulfstream1]

On leave at the moment - so no big deal, had the time ... Photoshop Elements 5 - took about 20minutes.

It is after all what forums are mean't to be about - sharing ideas and helping folk - from what I can see on this forum (and I've only been a member for a week or so), there are a couple "airheads" - and you'll find that on all forums - whatever the subject matter but by and large the folk here seem to be a helpful and likemided group of enthusiasts.

Yer - not important what u use as a "lever" - use whatever you want - so long as it has more strength than the frame tube and doesn't flex to much. Just don't overbend - having to bend back from an over bend will really then harden (and weaken) the tube - big time. Even though engine vibes are min, over time you can be sure they'll slowly stuff up the integrity of the tube wall (and then spoil a day out!).

[Phil_P]

Worst case scenario for if the point of bend started to crack (I had this problem with an aluminium cage), cut out a short section around the damage & get someone to run up a plug to fit into both sides then weld it in place (as it was only the cage, I resorted to pop rivets).

Phil

[helimed01]

Blimey Chris, the people on this forum (most of them anyway) really are helpful.

That reply must have taken ages and I am very gratefull for the ideas.

I will probably use a different form of lever but otherwise some great ideas.

Thanks very much

Eddie

Never mind all the "how do I fix it" and the usefull help. Edd, tell us how you bent it, thats much more interesting, God knows I ciuld do with a laugh at the moment.

Whitters.

[edwardc]

Not really sure Rich.

Nil wind launch, running very fast, lots of brake in hands just got in the seat out of desperation but obviously too early!

I feel (not being an expert) that the brake lines on my Revo are set a bit long as on Friday I was able to get both thumbs on the seat and pull myself in, on climb out, and I still had the brake lines in my hands!!

I would like to add that this is not what I normally do on take off.

It is possible that as I have gained experience I am starting to notice a lot more but I will have SW or Pete have a look when I get the chance.

If you want to see the result of the 'mishap' look at the Oxfordshire forum.

See you soon

Eddie

[fanman]

...on Friday I was able to get both thumbs on the seat and pull myself in, on climb out, and I still had the brake lines in my hands!!

I would like to add that this is not what I normally do on take off...

It may not be what you normally do but if I found myself doing something as potentially dangerous as this I'd be asking myself if I hadn't paid enough attention during my training. If you want to avoid being a statistic then you MUST reappraise your personal drill for getting into the seat. I don't care if this post is not cuddly enough, your life is more important than feelings. Get re-training if neccessary.

[edwardc]

I don't normally respond when people come on with no name, no location (not even an indication of which country!) but I felt this was a bit harsh.

There was nothing wrong with my training. I am PPG1 and I know about the pitfalls and dangers of stalling a wing on take off (even a reflex).

Which is why I made the point that this not the way that anyone should be getting in the seat!

To be more specific, I was launching in nil wind and when I couldn,t run any faster I pulled on the brakes to take off. Under normal circumstances i will get up to 50-100ft, keep the power on, stow the brakes and make myself comfortable and then retake the brakes until I reach an alttude that I feel is safe to release the trimmers.

However, I was surprised to find that I needed such a lot of brake (control) line to climb out that my hands were next to the bottom of my seat.

Which is why I feel that the brake line length needs looking at. I could be wrong and I have already spoken to Simon Westmore about it and will be going down to let him have a look soon.

I do, however, appreciate your concern and welcome any ideas.

Regards

Eddie

[alan_k]

Hi Eddie,

I found that when I went from my old PG wing to the ReAction the brake travel was a lot less to effect good control, so I would suggest your lines are too long.

Also I don't stow the brakes to get into the seat until I am 3-400 feet AGL, maybe this is a confidence thing but the wing manual says have the brakes in hand at anything below 100 metres.

Just my 2 penny worth,

Cheers,

Alan

[norman]

Hey Fanman,

You catch more flies with honey than a swat.

[edwardc]

Hello Alan

I find that once you are airborn and are no longer in need of the control lines to keep the climb rate then (providing you have had a good look around and everything is clear) it seems like an okay time to just get in your seat and concentrate on the climb.

I do realise that there will be a lot of opinions on this but wing size, motor power, weight etc will all have a bearing on how you feel on the climb out.

I have seen people let go of the brakes to get in their seat at anything from 20 feet upwards!

What do other people think?

Regards

Eddie

[fanman]

Hey Fanman,

You catch more flies with honey than a swat.

Not interested Norman.

This is a question of understanding the situation from a flight safety perspective. We should all have a personal discipline in the way we get into our seat. It works differently for different people based on many things such as experience, harness, clothing, ability, physique, etc, etc. The common thread with everybodies technique must be that if hands are required then they must not have the brakes in them. This is totally irrespective of if the brake lines are too short, right length or too long.

[outkast]

Hello Alan

I find that once you are airborn and are no longer in need of the control lines to keep the climb rate then (providing you have had a good look around and everything is clear) it seems like an okay time to just get in your seat and concentrate on the climb.

I do realise that there will be a lot of opinions on this but wing size, motor power, weight etc will all have a bearing on how you feel on the climb out.

I have seen people let go of the brakes to get in their seat at anything from 20 feet upwards!

What do other people think?

Regards

Eddie

Ed, malcs has the same motor as you and had trouble getting in the seat, we played around with the adjustments on his harness and got it to a point where he was able to just drop into the seat not needing to reach down at all, I think if you try adjusting your harness you may be able to sort it out a bit better.

Dave.

[macey2kk]

Hello Alan

I find that once you are airborn and are no longer in need of the control lines to keep the climb rate then (providing you have had a good look around and everything is clear) it seems like an okay time to just get in your seat and concentrate on the climb.

I do realise that there will be a lot of opinions on this but wing size, motor power, weight etc will all have a bearing on how you feel on the climb out.

I have seen people let go of the brakes to get in their seat at anything from 20 feet upwards!

What do other people think?

Regards

Eddie

Ed, malcs has the same motor as you and had trouble getting in the seat, we played around with the adjustments on his harness and got it to a point where he was able to just drop into the seat not needing to reach down at all, I think if you try adjusting your harness you may be able to sort it out a bit better.

Dave.

il give 50 quid to anyone that can teach ME to get in my parajet seat with no hands!!!.

[outkast]

Hello Alan

I find that once you are airborn and are no longer in need of the control lines to keep the climb rate then (providing you have had a good look around and everything is clear) it seems like an okay time to just get in your seat and concentrate on the climb.

I do realise that there will be a lot of opinions on this but wing size, motor power, weight etc will all have a bearing on how you feel on the climb out.

I have seen people let go of the brakes to get in their seat at anything from 20 feet upwards!

What do other people think?

Regards

Eddie

Ed, malcs has the same motor as you and had trouble getting in the seat, we played around with the adjustments on his harness and got it to a point where he was able to just drop into the seat not needing to reach down at all, I think if you try adjusting your harness you may be able to sort it out a bit better.

Dave.

il give 50 quid to anyone that can teach ME to get in my parajet seat with no hands!!!.

I have flown a parajet twice, first time I could not get in the seat, adjusted the harness and on the second flight I plopped staright in, its just a bit of trial and error, if you are ever up the flagpole the same time as me make sure you bring that £50

Dave

[edwardc]

This thread has gone completely off the subject!

I have not now, not ever, not since my first flight had any problem whatsoever getting into the seat of my Paramotor. I have no need off 'special needs' training to get into it and, as far as I can foresee, never will have!.

The point I was making,which seems to have got lost with fanman is that if my arms are low enough to get into my seat on climb out with the control toggles in my hand, are they too long?

I am not in the practice of doing this, I do not advocate it in any way, I certainly do not advise it and I certainly won't be doing it.

I have spoken to SW about it and I will be taking a look at the brake line length to check it.

I welcome advice, as most of you know but if someone is going to tell me what to do I, at least, want to know their bloody name, where they are from and why they think they can tell me what I should and shouldn't be doing!!

There is a big difference between criticism and advice.

Now let it go, if I need help I will ask the person or persons I know will have the knowledge and experience to help.

Hope that is not too 'cuddly'!!

Eddie