Guest Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 Nice one Big up to ya! I had a synth which I liked loads! Then a revo which I liked loads! Now I have a Fusion which I just love to bits, in a touch my Fusion and die kind of way Fusion Rocks! SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custom-vince Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I have successfully fitted and tested the CA-WTS kit. I pulled in 40cm of tip line with a ground speed of 80km and all is good. I have a first edit of detailed instructions and your feedback is appreciated http://www.custom-air.co.uk/Custom_Air_Sports/WTS.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_b Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 clear instructions Why did you get a shorter tst lines made? If you have to get the toggles which includes the tst lines , then you would only have to get the stabilo line in two parts which would work out cheaper. Pete b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_P Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Just the thoughts of an interested observer, I would spread out the text and pictures a little more, so that it is really clear which picture applies to which text. In fact, although it might not look quite as neat, how about just rearranging into a simple linear layout, one after the other. Perhaps with a Horizontal rule tag between each combined picture/text? Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custom-vince Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I got shorter TST lines to eliminate the amount of line flapping about for launching and during flight (As I pull in 40cm of WTS I get 40cm of stabilo flapping, thought it safer to be shorter, and for when on the speed bar the prop cage is closer to the risers due to pushing out in front of the wing) I also got thicker line, the WTS line takes more strain than the stabilo line. Even at 40cm it is still nearly twice that of my Re-Action but a lot less than the 120cm supplied. Yes it is dearer but I hope better. I may go longer next time. 50 or 60cm but 40 felt about the safe limit to be pulling the tips in. What is the limit? Phil_B, yes it would be clearer, I was playing with a new idea of laying out instructions, I may lay it out to fit into paged pdf file. I think some of the description needs to be adjusted and I could easily loose loads of pictures and get the point across. less is better or more is better? I went for more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyfreefly Posted July 29, 2009 Author Share Posted July 29, 2009 Still no word from paramania about a recall or a mod about the way that they are telling people to tie the tip stearing line to the stabilis line Just as a matter of interest I wonder what any indepenent testing body ie dulv, en, cen, dhv, ect ect ect, think about this method of securing a stearing line .. I know I keep going on about it but if something could potentially have killed me it needs to be changed...by the manafacturer ....Ive been told I am like a jack russell just keeps on and on and on and on..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_P Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 I'm with you on that Gary, it really seems bizarre that a manufacturer isn't doing a safety recall for what will ultimately be a very low cost modification. Perhaps they fear that by doing so, they open themselves to liability in event a wing slips through the recall net. However, there have been so many voices raised on this issue, that I fear they are putting themselves even more at jeopardy by sticking their heads in the sand and hoping the problem (and the complainers) will simply melt away. I am certainly not one who thinks we should tread lightly for fear of upsetting a manufacturer, after all, unlike a magazine where a large proportion of revenue is obtained from advertising, a forum such as this one has no worries as long as it remains factual and avoids lining up the owner to accusations of defamation. And it is only going to take one fatality to bring all the comments of 'mine was fine' into perspective, and leave us all wishing that perhaps we should have raised our collective voice just a little louder. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Guys, To be fair, I did say that I wanted a set to try out and then I was going to send them to Paramania (last week) Give me a chance to do that please. I am fairly sure that they will not 'recall' any wings. But I do think that they MAY give one or two of the line manufacturrers the Parmania stamp of approval to produce this kit. (if it works and does not create its own problems that is) The issue is raised, they are aware of this thread, and waiting for me to do the above. It's happening, so please be happy that your thread has been noticed and responded to. (dispite the fact that it is still only 3 people that are complaining) Which I think is very good. A little time please... And, I ask again... can I order a set for the 23 Fusion please? SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custom-vince Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Certainly can. Send me an address and paypal I will rush some to you. Just the one set? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_k Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 (if it works and does not create its own problems that is) I just cannot see this being any problem as it is identical to the TST fitting on the ReAction, with looped lines. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custom-vince Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 I have updated the fitting instructions with only minimal changes, mostly clearer layout. http://www.custom-air.co.uk/Custom_Air_Sports/WTS.html SW you should get your lines tomorrow or Saturday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t_andrews Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 (edited) Has anyone simply put a harken pully on the Stabilo line while leaving it connected as it normally is in the Maillion? Sewn in some neodymium keepers maybe? Half the deflection a quarter the effort... How much travel does one *really* need for wingtip input? Sleeve the whole dealio in neoprene to keep lines out of corners. Ball or ring on the swivel. Although well thought out (paramania kit), it seems a bit of busy riser for the result. Edited July 31, 2009 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 I got a set in the post today! I will fit them today and have a go as soon as the weather is playing ball. Vince can you send me a PP request to simon@ Thanks! SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Hi all, I have always tip steered by pulling down the stabilo line on my action. Am I missing something with this thread? Kind regards, Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custom-vince Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 SW will do at some point. Andrews - I though about something similar so I could just pull on the stabilo line, two metal rings small and large. Small one bolted into the Mullion as a guide and the other larger one as a small handle on the end of the Stabilo line so that it cannot pass through the smaller ring. (its a bit like one of my old kitesurfing rigs) it all worked out to be about the correct length but it has never been done and I can see room for error but a magnet keeper would solve one of my worries. I was unsure of any faults with this idea, why it is not done? which is the reason I went with an already familier and proven design. I may go back to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custom-vince Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Hi Jack, on my reaction I fitted a second line with toggles to the rear most point of the 3 stabilo attachments. I really got some great tip steering that way. I had two stabilo lines if you like, I found the stabilo line did very little where as I could crack a pretty good turn with my second TST line 45 degree bank flat out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t_andrews Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Tip steering in general is very much like two line kite steering (foil or ILE) in that it biases the width of lift on one side. The suggestion to use but one of the three stabilos lends it back to the realm of differential braking. I would hazard a guess that the roll rate is not the same? I would expect the latter (single trailing stabilo/brake) to be more efficient a turn and trade roll rate and height (and grins) for the single feather adjustment of a lone stabilo. There is likely a spot too where speed and depth of input matches them up. Perhaps just another variation in the readily exploitable adjustability of reflex wings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custom-vince Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 another one for Jack, with tip steering toggles you can use brakes and tips at the same time for a real tip rudder effect. t_andrews, two line kite steering, isn't that weight shifting. I noticed that my reaction has a synch like rings steering on the main brakes but the fusion has not, I likes the idea of bunching the tips to get good steering. Another point to mention it using one main brake on the fusion I can steer in either direction. I better explain.. Flying full trims out a gentle pull on the right hand brake (just enough to take out the slack) will cause a left hand turn, more pull for a right hand turn. Its great for photo's and course correction. I would guess it is caused by creating more lift on that side by reducing the reflex. Any one else played with this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Thanks for your replies Vince, you sure know your stuff on the tip steering. What a great forum for learning from more experienced pilots. I was looking closely at what I was doing this weekend. On my action I can only see one TRUE tip line on each side? The one at the middle of the chord right on its own going to the very tip. That's the one I have always gone for. I only tended to use it for directional adjustment when I'm fully reflexed for xc flying. I have never really cracked any turns this way I must admit although it doesn't seem to mind being pulled ! My understanding regarding an advantage of this was I was not affecting the reflex elevated section at the rear third of the chord by pulling it down, which would happen if I were to use the brake to steer in this profile. When I've felt the need to crack in the turns I've pulled the back down on ze trimmers to take off position or so and unclipped the brakes for use. Got to love the way these wing handle, I didn't know what a banking turn was prior to a reflex wing!! And to not have to actively fly just feels naughty! I am interested in anyone's experiences on this. Thanks for all your input, Kind regards, Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 My understanding regarding an advantage of this was I was not affecting the reflex elevated section at the rear third of the chord by pulling it down, which would happen if I were to use the brake to steer in this profile. Spot on! SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custom-vince Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 While pulling normal brakes while flying reflex works on the Action Re-Action it is not such a good idea on the Fusion which is 100% reflex. It can be done but is best to reduce some of the reflex as it would only prove to distort the wing. An inch out in reflex on the Fusion is like 4 inches out on my old re-action, something that took adjusting to, but its where all the speed comes from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_k Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 .. I can steer in either direction. I better explain..Flying full trims out a gentle pull on the right hand brake (just enough to take out the slack) will cause a left hand turn, more pull for a right hand turn. Its great for photo's and course correction. I would guess it is caused by creating more lift on that side by reducing the reflex. Any one else played with this? You clever old dog Vince. I tried this on this mornings flight and it works a treat. It will be great for one handed steering whilst taking pictures. The turn to the'wrong' direction is pretty slow but it does work Cheers, Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cambodia Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 My Fusion did not come with wing tip steering. It was fitted on the day I collected it and I was advised to glue or stitch the knot. You lot have got me worried now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 My Fusion did not come with wing tip steering.It was fitted on the day I collected it and I was advised to glue or stitch the knot. You lot have got me worried now! I have the same wing and i have made the lines part of my pre flight check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custom-vince Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 SW have you tried or tested the improved kit yet. http://www.custom-air.co.uk/Custom_Air_Sports/WTS.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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