Site Procedures

[asquaddie]

It appears that this has happen before and documented on this forum ‘Safety Matters | Serious Paramotor Accident’

I think that all pilots should have a ‘Safety Brief’ on arrival on any site, which shows an accurate site location, mobile numbers of emergency services and an First Aid crash bag, which should be located in the same obvious location all the time. Perhaps even, a ‘known’ safety vehicle (with keys in) at a suitable spot.

Clearly, the crash bag should include an extinguisher, blanket, bandages and good harness cutting equipment etc.

Maybe, another step further is to hand a ‘contact number’ to someone on arrival.

I understand that this can concertina on and on, but some sort of basic procedure must be essential.

Please note, that a procedure should be inforced on 'ALL SITES', which we fly on.

Tony

Edited May 29, 2009 by Guest

[Malcs]

I agree completely! I think we all get too complacent but this is a dangerous sport, should be areas for warming your engine up etc (although my opinion is that an engine should ONLY be started on your back).

Lets lead the way at this next fly-in!

[Guest]

Hi Tony,

We have a full set of local flying orders in place, with all of the information required. It is kept in a red box file in the front of my Landrover. It has Lat and Long, GR, telephone numbers and so on...

I also carry 2 fire extinguishers and burn dressings all the time. (which we used some of on the day.)

As you started your training before the PCOM kicked in, you will need to ensure that you find me and read a copy of the Local Flying Orders and safety / emergency action documents.

All of my current students will be fully clued up with this already.

SW

[asquaddie]

Yep, even if you attend a Radio Control Helcopter flyin - there are taped off areas, where you must start the motors in.

I must also mention about getting to many 'Rules and Regulations' on sites, but a basic initial Safety brief would cause no harm.

In my opinion, it would also encourage any body on their first visit to a site.

[asquaddie]

My apologies Simon, but this was not directed at your site (even thou you are correct) I personally think it should be at any site which any pilot fly’s from.

Tony

[togsie]

I'm wondering if it would be worth adding a stretcher to our emergency kit? It was a bit of a struggle getting Pete back up the hill even with 4 of us carrying him. When you think about the type of accident that's most likely to occur in Paramotoring it's probably going to be twisted ankles and sprained ligaments. A stretcher could come in very handy especially if pilot has landed a little way out.

The more that you think about it the more it makes sense, after all even a pub football team has usually got a stretcher and a cold sponge standing by on the sidelines.

Now who do we know that could get their hands on a second hand stretcher

Regards.

Ken

[edwardc]

Tony

I have to agree with you on the safety matters but it will be difficult to put into practise as most paramotorists do not fly from PMC sites.

After seeing Pete I am also not happy flying on my own as it is difficult to imagine what the result would have been if he had been alone at the flagpole.

The new system that SW has now with the PMC includes full safety brief and relevant information being given. Next of kin/who to contact/any medical conditions (dental plates etc which can choke in an accident if not known about) etc.

We also had a first aid brief off Whitters on removing helmets and what to do in an emergency (the demo in the French restuarant with Togsie was a bit OTT though!)

I think the whole situation with Pete was well handled by everybody there.

On a personal note: Helmet/Reserve/good pair of ankle supporting boots (Pete was very glad of his) and a easily accessible hook knife are permanent parts of my kit.

[asquaddie]

I agree, when you fly alone you must take you own responsibilities with it. These procedures should really apply to any group of flyers or organised sites. If you pay someone to fly at their location all this should be expected. This topic is not a dig at anybody or any site, but it does show how good the reaction was at Lambourn. I was just hoping that it will help check/update equipment at some sites and maybe some rethinks on small gathering of flyers.

Tony

[Mike]

Just to add that a roll of cling film in the same kit would be useful. For info, most PG sites do not allow flying alone and this has been a steadfast rule for quite some time. common sense really. Most of the PPG airfields l have visited have always been busy anyway.

Looks to windy this weekend, hope the flyin w'end weather is peachy eh!

Mike,

cu you there.

[Phil_P]

Just to add that a roll of cling film in the same kit would be useful.

It's a very good tool in the burns arsenal, as long as you've got someone trained to use it. If wrapped around a burn that subsequently swells, you can create as many problems as you solve. Also, always unwrap a few turns off the roll and discard before using it on the burn (infection control).

Just a thought to err on the side of caution.

Phil (PK)

[Guest]

im all for safety and doin what is best but as i have read a lot of people just nip to the field and fly with maybe two or three people. the other thing is if some sites disallow certain people on because of equipment, reserves insurance and other bits then my thoughts is they would just go somewere else and maybe even end up hurt. i think all you can do is try explain some things to people, they either listen or not,

i have a couple of friends who i did fly with but due to me moanin on about dont do this and becarefull of that it seems like they have drifted off and fly by themselves. when i asked them whats up and why dont they ring no more, there answer was that it is unregulated and they will please themselves,, which is fair enough they are entitled to. one chap recently had a bad accident local to me, he went out flyin with a pal and wrong conditions and decisions has put him in hospital, so i think encouragement is good but not regulations in certain sites.

puttin rules in to sites could icolate people and cause more people to fly by there selves and if they aint armed with good quality training and education then it could be a recipe for more accidents.

i think the site ownder/ user could keep a slight eye on people and maybe explain things to them that way?

apul axby has a field in doncaster and anyone is welcome no problem, if you break owt you pay for it, if he sees someone who is towin with somethin a bit he will help them and tell them, i think this is the best aproach to it really. anyway me done

[druffuk]

The fact that the accident has started this discussion can only be a positive thing, even if it is just to get people thinking about what they are doing abit more.

Being someone new to the sport and witnessing what happened has made me appreciate the importance of safety, taking the time to check and double check and having good training. However, I understand that no matter what precautions we take sometimes things will go against us and accidents will happen. It is a risk we all understand and accept.

The response of the people that were at Lambourn that day has only inspired my confidence that should something happen to me while I'm doing my training, that there are people who know what they are doing and will look out for one another.

[Guest]

i think havin a brief is fine but i dont think it will avoid accidents, ya know were i go there is maybe 10 or 20 pilots some very exprienced and it is comical because some of these experienced pilots break props get dragged or other, none serious but potentially could be. when ya ask them what happened to manage to break a prop or to get dragged they alway alway justify why and how they did it, it was never there fault type thing. then you get new student in field and these same so called experienced people are giving them advise , i just am amazed to see that some of the experienced pilots aint really too experienced at all and the one thing they didnt ought to do is try tell someone how not to break a prop or how to ground handle a wing because from what i see these same people aint too clever at it to begin with.

I remember havin discusions about bhpa the benefits of it from a very experienced pilot he is very keen on safety and follows bhpa rules to the letter.

this same bloke does not carry a reserve and when i asked him why not his answer was that if he thought he needed it he wouldnt fly?

i found that to be weird cos i always thought that you carry a reserve because you will never know when you need it but if you ever do it is there,

so i gave up listening to his advise too. all i am pointin out is you got to be very cafefull whos advise you take , never no harm in listening but make sure what is said is right.

another thing i see is a lot of pilots with experience get off the ground with luck, nothin to do with being competent with a wing.

this is not all experienced pilots cos there is some who clearly know what they are doing, the trick is to find them and question those people

[Malcs]

Leo, can you send me a couple of grams of whatever you're smoking!

Cheers

Malc

[irm750]

Actually, I think I might agree with Leo's last post!

As a new/prospective pilot you do have to be careful who you listen to. You are on a massive learning curve and act a bit like a sponge, soaking up as much info as you can cram into your bonce in as short a time as possible.

It's very easy (and bloody dangerous!) to take everything that everyone says as gospel.

I fly alone more often than not, and this post has certainly made me re-evaluate my safety processes and equipment. That's just one reason why this site is so valuable!

Best regards,

Ian.

[Guest]

well whatever i am smokin it keeps me safe , i dont go breakin props and cocking lauches up, so if you feel ya need some of what i smoke il have to charge ya lol

[Guest]

Leoibb,

It will do you well to remember that no one is invincible. Human error is a fact of life and (just like your recent flight in bad weather) EVERYONE INCLUDING YOU Make mistakes.

The second you think you are special is when it will bite you hard!

OVER CONFIDENCE is a killer in this sport.

SW

[Guest]

accidents are decisions on what to do in an event, so my thoughts are accidents are created. the bad flight yes wrong decicion to fly so if i had have had an accident is it my dicision or events that caused it. so all i was pointing out is that a lot can be avoided. im clearly open to accidents like everyone else. i know how easy it is to forget to do something or not do something, there aint room to forget in this game so its pretty simple really ya just dont forget,

ya know it used to really get to me when i failed a launch forward, but now it does not happen, pretty bold statement i know but it is dead right i launch first time every time, that in my mind is doing something right, its hard enough launchin it to begin with never mind twice, i aint unique anyone can do it so long as they dont accept it might take twice, il be honest in the air i know what i have read and know my height but shit my self when i get thrown about and i land pretty much as quick as i can so i am miles away from experienced in that department.

so simon is dead right anyone can have accidents but there are people who have lots and then people who have very few or none at all.

[norman]

Its really very simple, the price of accident free flight is eternal vigilance and a desire to constantly remove sources of potential for trouble. That is the way it is elsewhere in aviation and application of that principle has brought phenomenal success in the fight to reduce accidents and hull losses with their resultant injuries and fatalities.

As soon as human frailty begins to intrude on the form of egotism, carelessness, lack of vigilance and contempt for safe operating practices, the statistics rise against us. But ALWAYS chance plays her part appearing on the scene to take her cut. No-one is immune, the very best get tripped up if they break the rules like the rest of us. The lucky just take a little longer to get caught out.

Pride does generally come before a fall.

[Guest]

so basically set up your own safe rules and dont deviate from them regardless sooner or later they just become habit and a part of who you are, which is what keeps you safe.

[Guest]

Leoibb,

Just out of interest, remind me where you are based..... I know you have told me before.... up north somewhere if I remember?

SW

[dean_barker]

Very well said Norman.

Its really very simple, the price of accident free flight is eternal vigilance and a desire to constantly remove sources of potential for trouble. That is the way it is elsewhere in aviation and application of that principle has brought phenomenal success in the fight to reduce accidents and hull losses with their resultant injuries and fatalities.

As soon as human frailty begins to intrude on the form of egotism, carelessness, lack of vigilance and contempt for safe operating practices, the statistics rise against us. But ALWAYS chance plays her part appearing on the scene to take her cut. No-one is immune, the very best get tripped up if they break the rules like the rest of us. The lucky just take a little longer to get caught out.

Pride does generally come before a fall.

[Guest]

i am up in west yorkshire leeds area

[pete_b]

i launch first time every time, that in my mind is doing something right, its hard enough launchin it to begin with never mind twice, i aint unique anyone can do it so long as they dont accept it might take twice,

So can I every time exept Sunday???????

Think on my friend and fly safe

Pete b

[Guest]

i dont really understand what that meant????

ya know has daft as it may sound i believe there is only one way to do something and that is the right way, so i cant get what ya said pete?

if i am a joiner do i not cut the wood so it fits right or just accept well ive cut three doors now and the third one fits? do i build a wall and not get it level but think oh well lets do it again? so then why is it acceptable to fail launches? it looks cheap it look amature its shoddy and can be dangerous,

i was always told this. its far easier to learn to do something right than to explain why you did it wrong..

when is this get together fly in? i now i have seen it about somewere and i will come down be good to meet some of you chaps