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ok, so we know a mayday 18 is certified to bring a 120 kg weight down at no faster than 5.4 m/s, but what about a 131kg weight? my mate says it will be fine if I had to throw my chute while being 11kg over weight!. has anyone seen any data on reserve desent rates under different loads, I just want to use my mayday 18 for paramotoring and don't want to spend another £375 on top of all the thousands I've aready spent

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Be careful about assumptions here.

Reserves are not unlike main gliders except that sometimes the numbers aren't based on top weight range for the same descent rates.

A regular glider's descent rate is generally calculated in the middle of the weight range for that size glider.

The same is not always true for a reserve. Sometimes using the top of a weight range, sometimes the middle.

That is, although they may offer a max descent @ 5.4, that could be for the middle of the weight range(97.5kg), even though it's certified to 120.

So you could get one thinking you'll be a bit faster descent then 5.4 and be dropping much like a stone.

Here's the mayday manual:

http://www.apcoaviation.com/support/man ... mayday.pdf

Makes no mention of which mass is 5.4, so I would assume it's for the middle until manufacturer tells you otherwise. (97.5kg)

Do ask them. Make sure they answer to your satisfaction.

Not saying it's misleading, just that others assumptions may mislead when they assume they're fact.

Ask Apco or you'll never be sure. Please tell us.

I understand your goal as I'm on the same path to find a reserve I can cross use for free flight (with a really slow descent rate).

If your reserve is portable as a front mount or other swappable setup, then flying it beats flying nothing. Even 10m/s down is better then terminal velocity ;-)

Edited by Guest
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I was interested so did an online conversion.

5.4m/s is 12mph

10m/s is 20mph :shock:

Can't say that I'd like to hit the ground at 12mph at all, let alone with all my paramotor gear on adding extra energy into the crash.

But I do agree that anything would be better than terminal velocity (120mph for a freefalling human!)

Best regards,

Ian.

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ok, so we know a mayday 18 is certified to bring a 120 kg weight down at no faster than 5.4 m/s, but what about a 131kg weight? my mate says it will be fine if I had to throw my chute while being 11kg over weight!. has anyone seen any data on reserve descent rates under different loads, I just want to use my mayday 18 for paramotoring and don't want to spend another £375 on top of all the thousands I've already spent

£375 is a small price to pay for saving your legs or back let alone your life :!:

If money is tight sell your old one and use the larger one for both, at the worst you will come down really slow with out the weight of the motor

Pete b

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Thanks there are some good points have been raised, I will ask apco for more info on there descent ranges although I can see them being reluctant to commit themselves due too the danger of litigation, but I will give it shot. Now I think about it, a reserve gives the peace of mind to enjoy your flight knowing you have a second chance if you have a mayor equipment failure, so flying with a underated reserve is'nt going to exactly put my mind at ease, so I think I better start saving my pennies. I will let you know what apco say about what they 75kg to120kg @ 5.4m/s range whether its based on the mid weight or upper weight limit

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I am ready to be proven wrong, but I would suspect that reserves will be rated at their maximum weight for the quoted descent rate, otherwise putting any other value on is completely worthless.

The five point something descent rate I seem to recall from my repack training was expected to be survivable with minor injuries, so it is actually something like a standard figure and the maximum descent rate you could expect from a given reserve, being used within it's weight range.

Something worth looking up, are the equivalent values for descent rates when given as the same as stepping off a wall, x feet high, it is quite scary.

I've a feeling Dudek have a new reserve, markedly larger, that has a lower quoted descent rate, to improve the injury rate.

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This is another case of manufacturers catching up to demand, where demand is the sparse and infrequent (relatively speaking to free flight global percentages) requests for something that will allow those descent rates to be reasonable when carrying 1/3 to 1/2 of one's body weight in metal and composites.

I'm only blurting here because I've been shopping for sometime and smacked facelong into this over and over.

Despite these good folks ignoring at least five email of varied mix of english and babelfish german, they still hold my favorite and preferred, albeit eventual , reserve.

Par example:

http://vonblon.com/dt/papillon.htm

lists

Sinkrate: nur 3,1m/s bei 100 kg

The reserve is rated for 140kg but the sinkrate @ 140kg?? Excellent question / gute Frage.

Their biplace/tandem version simply says:

Sinkrate: ca. 3,5 m/s bei 180 kg

My pick as I'm 150kg all up and if I float down slower then 3.5m/s then that just gives me more time to pick my LZ.

A comparable and more mainstream supplier, the apco guided mayday rogallo steerable (not to be confused with the real designer a la vonblon just *looks and flys* the same):

rated from 60-130 kg

descent rate - 2.8 m/s (90kg)

But @ 130kg.....?

ref: News url

Again - no hint of how to do a PLF with a four foot cage and mass of a paramotor to deal with...

I've mixed a little rant in here to voice my displeasure with the as yet unrecognized masses that are us whom wear metal whilst we fly. Misplaced? Probably.

It means we generally must shoot for the tandem versions to cover

1) all up mass at a reasonable descent rate which

2) takes our limited landing gear into consideration.

I should note that while a paramotor adds energy to a crash, it is likely to suck up a great deal more then it adds as so many folks here can attest.

I don't really understand the apex reserve mentality with proven steerables out there, but a reserve is a personal choice.

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