geoffw Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 hello to you all , One simple question what is the best paramotor to start flying and keep flying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_P Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 In my opinion, no such animal. Maybe one day you want to fly for half an hour, and power as high as you can, so fuel consumption isn't an issue. Another day you want to chug along at 1000 feet, sipping fuel and going for miles. You might want to thermal one day, so an ultra-light motor will suit you then, but as a beginner, maybe a heavier motor with a more robust cage will do you fine. Maybe you are visiting a field where they are sensitive to noise, so an electric or four stroke could be the ideal, but then again, tomorrow, you might be flying in the middle of no-where, where your screaming two stroke will only disturb the birds and the bunnies. Perhaps you want to fly on a tiny wing, so the ultimate in power will be what you need for that mad-cap dash, then again, perhaps you'd rather use a tarpaulin for the Albert Hall roof, so can get away with marginal horsepower. Maybe you will only want to do one type of flying in your life, but I doubt it. So the motor you chose will probably be a compromise, leaning heavily towards your preferred activity, which will almost certainly be different from the next guy. Just my thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dantheman Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 hello to you all , One simple question what is the best paramotor to start flying and keep flying Phil has a point, best for what ? economy ? power ? strength ? weight ? comfort ? reliability ? manufacturer back up ? spares ? price ? what is your budget ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outkast Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 Phils right, no such animal, if there were we would all be flying one, what may be good for someone else may not suit you, there are other factors to take into account, your weight, budget and to some degree your athaletic ability, what will you be using it for, XC, soaring, or just a little bimble around your locality occasionally? Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffw Posted April 8, 2009 Author Share Posted April 8, 2009 hi guys help !danthe man I see your motor is the H&E120 how did you make your choice and surely a quiet smooth relyable motor is the place to start. my bugjet is £4000 or there abouts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outkast Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 hi guys help !danthe man I see your motor is the H&E120 how did you make your choice and surely a quiet smooth relyable motor is the place to start. my bugjet is £4000 or there abouts is that for the motor alone or your budget for everything? if its for the motor alone you should be able to pick up a pretty good low hours secondhand motor for that, best thing to do it to look on this and other sites for reviews and comments on the different motors people fly with regards to biuld quality and reliability, what weight/biuld are you? Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dantheman Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 My choice was because: 1) my club was teaching with that motor hence I learnt on it and know my way around it. 2) it was second hand (I did not want, nor could afford new) 3) seemed like a popular choice at the flying fields, no worse for reliability than other motors. 4) spares are readily available in the UK, plus the manufacturer is easy to talk to. to me, noise was unimportant, neither was economy however it is nice and light which is a bonus. I would just as easily have bought a Parajet at the right price as I have enjoyed a couple of flights on one and it fits in the car easily - also spares are easy to get. To be honest all paramotors are noisy vibrating ugly engines strapped to your back, just some are slightly more noisy than others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macey2kk Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 hi guys help !danthe man I see your motor is the H&E120 how did you make your choice and surely a quiet smooth relyable motor is the place to start. my bugjet is £4000 or there abouts geoff, if you are interested in a brand new parajet macro - unflown, with 7 mins on the tacho then pm me. cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outkast Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 hi guys help !danthe man I see your motor is the H&E120 how did you make your choice and surely a quiet smooth relyable motor is the place to start. my bugjet is £4000 or there abouts geoff, if you are interested in a brand new parajet macro - unflown, with 7 mins on the tacho then pm me. cheers DROOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_b Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 hi guys help !danthe man I see your motor is the H&E120 how did you make your choice and surely a quiet smooth relyable motor is the place to start. my bugjet is £4000 or there abouts geoff, if you are interested in a brand new parajet macro - unflown, with 7 mins on the tacho then pm me. cheers Put in the for sale on here. Pete b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macey2kk Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 hi guys help !danthe man I see your motor is the H&E120 how did you make your choice and surely a quiet smooth relyable motor is the place to start. my bugjet is £4000 or there abouts geoff, if you are interested in a brand new parajet macro - unflown, with 7 mins on the tacho then pm me. cheers Put in the for sale on here. Pete b hi pete, tbh, im only considering selling cos i cant get a dudek synth at the right money, its one of those situations!, il sell it for the right offer or il keep it till i find a synth. cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nirmal Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 Hi Geoffw, I'll get the ball rolling; perhaps others will chip in with the pros and cons of their motors. I bought a second hand PAP Top80. It is by no means the best out there, but is not in anyway inferior to the others on the market. I bought it for the following reasons (not necessarily in this order). 1. PAP is one of the leading manufacturers worldwide. 2. Spares are readily available in England. 3. It is easy and cheap to work on and maintain (2 stroke, non electric start, very simple and rugged design of all parts; hardly ever breaks down). 4. It is one of the lightest motors available. 5. Fuel economy is among the best for 2 strokes. 6. It has a centifugal clutch, so it is easy to handle the motor with the engine on. Personally I find it safer if the prop doesn't spin unless the throttle is opened. 7. Low hangpoints and weight shift system. 8. The cage is made of deformable stainless steel, and it makes a very good energy absorbing crumple zone in the event of a bad landing. In more rugged cages, the energy is transmitted through the cage to the pilot. 9. Low noise, vibration and torque reaction. 10. The quality of workmanship and finish is top notch. 11. It is a motor that has been around for some time now, and there have been very few issues, serious problems or catastrophic failures of either the engine or the chassis. 12. It is not overpowered for a new pilot. Too much power for an inexperienced pilot can be dangerous. The main downside to the Top80 is that it is underpowered for heavier pilots. It is flyable for pilots upto 90kg with a suitably sized non reflex wing, but for optimum performance with a reflex wing, the pilot would probably have weigh 70kg or less. I am 83kg, and I fly a non reflex wing. It is quite sufficient for my needs currently, but I will probably upgrade to a slightly more powerful motor a few years down the line. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffw Posted April 12, 2009 Author Share Posted April 12, 2009 hello nirmal yes a proper answer so there is a animal out there I have looked at the pap range and i did think the workmanship is top notch, but they or pricey how many hours has you pap done, and you did say that you would go for a big motor ,what would you go for as we are the same weight I would like to buy the right motor first.Also do refex wings produce less drag.so you land faster.And were do you fly,I live in stourbridge west midlands and would like to join a club or meet up with pilots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffw Posted April 12, 2009 Author Share Posted April 12, 2009 Very nice looking machine but how relyable are they, and what is the price, also why are you selling a new motor but i am interested Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nirmal Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Geoffw, I live in Chester. There are very few clubs around at present. The best way I've found to meet fellow pilots is through these forums. My motor has less than 25 hours on it. I bought it with less than 8 hours on it. A friend of mine has a Top80 with more than 200 hours on it still going strong. PAP's are expensive, but they are among the very best available, and you certainly get your money's worth. There is also the reassurance that you are flying a machine that hundreds of people have been using safely for years, which you won't get with some small brands. I would eventually like to upgrade to a PAP Ros125. They are rare as hens teeth secondhand. No one ever seems to want to sell them on. You wouldn't loose much if you bought a Top80 to learn and gain experience on and then upgraded later. PAP's hold their value very well and they are snapped up as soon as they are advertised. In fact I am pretty certain of making a profit on mine as long as I don't damage it. If you are learning on a more powerful motor like a Ros125 or a Parajet Macro, you will have to be very careful with the amount of power you turn on while taking off. They are capable of producing enough thrust to stall some wings and cause a serious or even fatal crash. You will get enough altitude to make for a high energy impact, but not enough for your wing to recover. I know someone who found this out the hard way recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macey2kk Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 If you are learning on a more powerful motor like a Ros125 or a Parajet Macro, you will have to be very careful with the amount of power you turn on while taking off. They are capable of producing enough thrust to stall some wings and cause a serious or even fatal crash. surely this depends on geoffs weight, as being underpowered can have the same effect????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer_Dave Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Interesting. Neither of those units are overly powerfull Nirmal. Put either with a good wing and make sure the student knows better than to get heavy handed with the brakes whilst climbing and I would be astonished if you got a power stall on an appropriately sized wing. There is another train of thought also. Put as much power on your back as you can. dont HAVE to use it but it might be handy one day. We had 650 ft'min down today. With full power I was only losing 150 ft/min and this went on for ages til we got in those nice big Spring therms again and went up like rockets on idle. Also, if you have big power you can cruise quietly at quarter throttle (with a good wing) This is good cos it dont pi** o** the people on the ground as much as an angry hornet at mach 3. And nirmal. Do read my reply to your idea on crumple zones on the Concept paramotor page if you haven't already. If you would like to contact me by PM it wouldn't be a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffw Posted April 12, 2009 Author Share Posted April 12, 2009 Nice one nirmal I know what your saying about to much power and that you must use the power with great care,Truth is the pap 1250r ros looks fantasic and the spec looks like it would tick all the boxes but £4400 is a lot of cash , many thanks Geoffw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nirmal Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 (edited) I think it is more of an issue when you fly a very slow wing for example a large free flying DHV1 wing with your all up weight, motor and kit included being on the lower limit for free flying. A powerful motor on full throttle would be sufficient to stall the wing. Considering the fact that there are a large number of people out there who teach themselves and buy kit without considering all the implications, it is a point worth remembering. The reason I mentioned the Macro is that I know someone who had exactly that problem on one. The Ros was mentioned because it falls in broadly the same thrust category. Obviously it is not a big issue for experienced pilots or good instructors training someone at least half sensible. There is an interesting video on the paragliding forum. http://www.paraglidingforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=10035 Edited April 12, 2009 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer_Dave Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 I cant tick the box for best looks with my paramotor, maybe. I have ticked the ones for power, safety, economy and others though. Haven't ticked the one for broken props yet, thankfully.! Nor do I expect to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Haven't ticked the one for broken props yet, thankfully.! Nor do I expect to. Talk about tempting fate!! SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer_Dave Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 LOL I already have a spare here , just incase Si. I'm sure there'll be a big cheer if I'm the first to break a Flat Top prop and IF it happens I'll be at my keyboard to tell you guys exactly what went wrong. Dell broke one but the whole machine was mashed after a 30 foot fall. Dont know if that one counts. Good point Nirmal. I hadn't accounted for the self teachers that buy the wrong kit of ebay. Got one near me but atleast I wont let him buy the wrong stuff so he's half way there. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Good point Nirmal. I hadn't accounted for the self teachers that buy the wrong kit of ebay. Got one near me but atleast I wont let him buy the wrong stuff so he's half way there. Oh dear i bought mine of ebay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer_Dave Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Alan Nothing wrong with buying from ebay aslong as you know what you require. Potential problems could arise if someone unscrupulously sold someone inappropriate equipment, just because their only interest was to recoup their money. Dealers tend match a customer, with equipment, more carefully, and have a reputation to uphold. I dont know you or your level, but if you have concerns, do speak to someone qualified. Fly safe Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 speaking of props do anyone know who does repairs to them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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