Guest Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 The best picture I have ever taken. http://www.paramotorclub.org/forum/albu ... pic_id=204 1 hour at 4000ft+ popped over to see Chris Holly's place in Stanford in the Vale with Col ealry enough to pop out over an thick inversion. It looks like the edge of the atmosphere!!!!! you have to take a look. Going to take a look at a winch now for possible training use of Chris. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcs Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 Awesome pic, I guess if you have the right kit you can get some decent aerial shots, maybe high def too if pointing in a straight line ahead of you. Is anybody with a paramotor actually making anything from aerial photography, sure to be a damn sight cheaper than a chopper? Malc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 A cracking snap! Is anybody with a paramotor actually making anything from aerial photography Sadly it is not permitted to use paramotors for 'Arial work' in the UK. No income can be derived from the use of.... it's part of what they call 'The Exemption' I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dantheman Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 Nice piccy, do you need oxygen at that altitude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t_andrews Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Not my best photo, but Simon's post made me dig this out because inversions do weird things to daylight. This was shot @ 10am bright sunny day from 4500'. Peaks below are 2000'. Bear country, New Brunswick Canada. http://paramotorclub.org/forum/album_pic.php?pic_id=685 Your Simon does look like you're on the edge of space if the fields weren't so easy to see. Quite a contrast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonphotographic Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Cracking shot Simon. One of those rare ones where everything comes together for that split second Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgy Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Hi all As its the new year and people are getting out there wicked photos is there any chance to have a little photo comp. It could go on all year and then be judged in december next year. you could have a few different sections for diff subjects Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dantheman Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Hi all As its the new year and people are getting out there wicked photos is there any chance to have a little photo comp. It could go on all year and then be judged in december next year. you could have a few different sections for diff subjects Mate it's all in hand, we were just waiting for Simon to zoom off before staring a photo comp, it's a 2008 comp so start sorting out your best flying pics from last year, winner gets a cuddly toy or whatever at the March fly-in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatboy Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Malcs Quote: Is anybody with a paramotor actually making anything from aerial photography Normans reply; Sadly it is not permitted to use paramotors for 'Arial work' in the UK. No income can be derived from the use of.... it's part of what they call 'The Exemption' I believe. So Norman are you saying that the film work of the tip to tip was illegal? or what special permissions were granted. Because this could cause some big problems with the DVD that has been produced? or have I got it wrong? To what extent can photographs taken from a paramotor be used, or for what purpose, like Paramotor Magazine. Are videos classed as the same? YouTube? Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_P Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 So Norman are you saying that the film work of the tip to tip was illegal? or what special permissions were granted. Because this could cause some big problems with the DVD that has been produced? or have I got it wrong? Paul Must admit, I wondered the same. Is it something to do with the proceeds going to charity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slim Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 So Norman are you saying that the film work of the tip to tip was illegal? or what special permissions were granted. Because this could cause some big problems with the DVD that has been produced? or have I got it wrong? Paul Must admit, I wondered the same. Is it something to do with the proceeds going to charity? I think that the key point of the Tip To Tip filming was that none of the paramotor pilots who carried cameras were "working." There was no prior agreement to use any footage they took, no suggestion that they would be paid for that footage whether it was used or not and, in the final analysis, they were not and will not be paid for that footage. They were pilots who happened to be carrying cameras not cameramen who happened to be flying. Tip To Tip did not play fast and loose with the law in this respect. Stuart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_P Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Surely the intent to be commercial is incidental? I know that even if I was to accidentally photograph a house from the air from a light aircraft, there is no way that I could sell a copy of the picture to the owners of the house, nor could a third party, even if I was not paid for it. It is still classed as aerial work and requires a commercial pilots licence. If for instance the people filming had either some equipment or fuel paid for, this could be interpreted as 'payment in kind' or 'valuable consideration' as defined in the ANO which is also a no-no. As I understand it, the only way you can get round this issue is to publish photographs in a book. Was the advice of the CAA sought on this, or is it just an amateur interpretation of the law? It is also a requirement that a charity flight must have received authorisation from the CAA. See final page; http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/1428/summary_ ... nsport.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatboy Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Slim, You are Totally wrong with post of; “I think that the key point of the Tip to Tip filming was that none of the paramotor pilots who carried cameras were "working." There was no prior agreement to use any footage they took, no suggestion that they would be paid for that footage whether it was used or not and, in the final analysis, they were not and will not be paid for that footage. They were pilots who happened to be carrying cameras not cameramen who happened to be flying.” Dan Burton is professional photographer; his web sites are; http://www.danburtonphoto.co.uk/ http://underwaterimages.co.uk/gallery/gallery/tiptotip “AIR, LAND & SEA PHOTOGRAPHY” From his website, “During this Summer Dan joined a team of 6 paramotor pilots to fly the long journey from Land End to John 'Groats. The Journey took 16 day, and covered more than 850 GPS miles, with more than 40 hours in the air. The weather was challenging, and many said that they'd never do it. Some pilots pulled out, and only 2 pilots managed to make the journey. We were the first recorded pilots to make this journey.” Dan was one of the survivors, and got to the end without any mishaps. To see some images, visit The Tip 2 Gallery . The DVD only a proportion of sales go to charity, so is Dan Burton making money from aerial work? I think enough professional people were involved with the tip to tip. Norman R; professional pilot, Simon W; instructor, Dan Burton; professional photographer, Francis (where are you Lately?), etc. to have looked in to this not to have broken the law! As in the start of the thread Norman was aware of this! So can anybody clarify photography or video with a paramotor & selling them, using on web sites or even taking an aerial photo of the farm of the owner of our take off fields, because he lets us take off from them? Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Having spoken to the people I need to in more detail than I care to mention, We have no issues here with the law or otherwise, please call the CAA if you wish to understand in detail or make a complaint about our trip. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_P Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Simon, I don't think your reply does you any justice. As far as I can see, no one is complaining about the trip, and people who are voicing questions about the videography are falling into two camps; 1) Folks who would love to make a bob or two out of their flying if it can be done legally, & 2) People who are genuinely concerned that the sales of videos may be putting some of you in the firing line. Personally, I have a foot in each of these camps. On a forum like this, which claims to want to disseminate knowledge on paramotoring, to tell people to contact the CAA for more information is less than helpful. You may well have got it carved in stone from the CAA that the sale of the video is on the up and up, in which case you can set a lot of peoples concerns to rest, but if you haven't, then all it would take conceivably to put you on a sticky wicket, would be some b**tard with an axe to grind getting onto the enforcement division. I wouldn't want any of the people I call friends to be in that position. Please note, this is NOT a personal attack, and I wouldn't want anyone involved in T2T to take it as such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Personal? Never taken as such. I just have a limited amount of time to reply to all the questions, VERY busy at the mo. In Short, NON of the pilots / pilots companies have made a penny out of this event. That's your answer isnt it? SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 If you ask the CAA, what you need to do to make a DVD about paramotors (during flight) and sell it, (charity or not) they are likely to say.... "What can we do to help" This quote is not misplaced...... The CAA are not here to stop you, or make things hard.. They are here to help! Think of them a little like the inland Rev! no one likes them but why? They will help, ALWAYS no matter what you want to do. (they are even giving help for the Aus trip already and I have not asked!) For Paramotors as far I as can tell / get from the people in the know (CAA) if it is of interest to them (outside of normal flight), contact them. There is no written (comercial pilots licence for Paramotors) but this IS I say again IS likely to change in the near future. Until then............ the Law say's don't do it. If you would like to run an event / expedition / produce a Paramotor DVD, and are concerned about the CAA stuff, the Paramotor Club can help (Please call!) SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatboy Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 All I have found on the CAA site about aerial photography is http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/SRG_GAD_AERIAL_PHOTO.PDF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donegalwing Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Simon You say the CAA are 'likely' to say..... Does this mean that you think this is what they will say or this IS what they say, it would be interesting to hear what is legal with regard to filming or taking pictures from our paramotors. Dean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 All, One of our members is currently talking to the CAA and has been for some time about this very subject and is getting on well. I am sure that he will post a message here once he has finalised his findings. (the reasons for not publicising this is because of the sure to follow questions before all of the info was in. ) My point is that 'they' will help if and when they can and are doing so and as we speak with regards to filming / video from a paramotor. It's not my task so don't know the full details other than it's looking positive for a result. (again not sure how its going to happen) The member on the case is the best man for the job, and I recon he will have info for us in a few weeks. Many people are keen to know about this one and have an interest in it so as soon as the full info is here, it will be posted. Its all quite exciting stuff this! SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 The business of aerial photography from a paramotor for the purpose of selling images or footage is a very topical. Look to the last issue of Paramotor Magazine [edition 10 page 18] to see the success that a Swedish photographer Max Marcus has had with the Swedish authorities over exactly the same issue. The issue is an old one but upcoming in 2009. If the photographer was paid, every image taken within the UK from a paramotor was taken illegally as there are currently no AOC Operations working paramotors at the moment. The implications of that are... interesting for quite a number of organisations aren't they? There are a number of people taking images from the air and selling them who are operating illegally and if were challenged by the CAA/third parties would have a hard time remaining clear of some form of sanction. From what I have heard I think we might expect some progress later either during '09 or '10. I had a long conversation with the CAA early in 2008 and understand where the law and regulation lies, Dan does too - we have discussed the issue in detail. I understand that Dan is currently talking to the CAA about aerial photography from paramotors. Beyond that you need to talk to Dan. I am unaware of the commercial arrangements made between Dan and Hotaches Productions but I think if you were to pursue the matter you would almost certainly find that Dan contributed his images FOC as he was fully aware of the legality issues before Tip to Tip was flown. The Law in a nutshell - to the best of my knowledge. Taking pictures from the air, stills or video and selling the product is classed as 'aerial work.' In order to fly aerial work flights one must operate within an AOC (Air Operators Certificate). Obtaining one of these certificates is a complex process (I set one up some time ago for a fixed wing charter operation). It requires that the machines that you fly and the bods who fly them are appropriately certificated (CofA) licensed (pilots commercial licensed) and checked for competence. There are a number of other requirements obviously but these are the ones that concern us. The problem becomes highly visible doesn't it? Paramotors do not operate under a CofA and paramotor pilots are unlicensed. Far be it from me to double guess the CAA but.... The only way around these limitations is to persuade the CAA to create a 'Dispensation to Operate'. This will probably require fulfilling the above requirements in some depth, registering the craft (PPG) and checking the pilots for competence, understanding and adherence to an Operations Manual which defines best practice (operational/weather etc) for the work being undertaken. None of this is impossible, it will just be expensive and take some time IF the authority decide to become involved and grant appropriate dispensations. From Phatboy's post above - an extract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerlord Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Andrew McMahon: www.1photo1.com most awesome paramotor shots I have ever seen. makes me dispair of my own dismal efforts every time I look at his latest amazing shots of scotland. stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 (edited) Here are a couple more Powerlord, I am with you, amazing. http://www.georgesteinmetz.com/ This guy is a rare talent. Notice the Motor of choice... http://www.garywilliamson.co.uk/gw/ Andrew McMahon is in a class of his own I think, along with Gary Williamson - they are impressive. What is perhaps most admirable is that they just get out there and do it. You don't see them carping, sniping or casting ridicule on others who TRY, they just do it. Magic! Edited January 15, 2009 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outkast Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 "What is perhaps most admirable is that they just get out there and do it. You don't see them carping, sniping or casting ridicule on others who TRY, they just do it. Magic!" VERY well put Norman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Thanks Outcast - I really do admire positive thinkers, people who make stuff happen and get on with life. I don't cast nursturtions on anyone/anyplace here, it is more just a feeling you know? Yes, I think you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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