norman Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 (edited) Content withdrawn as it has done its job. The next time it appears it will be in its final form. Edited December 14, 2008 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outkast Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Nice one Norman and well done to all those involved, its nice to know the future of this sport is in safe hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnorton Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Excellent. I think it is far better to do this proactivily now, rather than have it forced upon the sport at point, which I think would eventually happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huffhuff Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Jolly good. Well done Norman and everybody else involved. Long live the paramotorclub, feels good to be 'part of it' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slim Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Having seen some of the drafts on the way through I'd like to say congratulations to Norman and all those involved for an outstanding piece of work. When they write the histories of Paramotoring this will be one of the milestones. Now let's all get on with the flying Stuart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted December 5, 2008 Author Share Posted December 5, 2008 Thanks gents, the work is ongoing and there is plenty of it. Simon has been brilliant and our 'Stig' Panel Examiners too. Wait until you meet them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_b Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Thanks to all involved in this as it will carry our sport safely in to the future weather we remain deregulated or become regulated, and we will be regulated one day. Pete b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outkast Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 I think it will go a long way in showing that the majority of participants in this sport are responsible flyers and will show that we are willing to "self regulate" in a way, this will show the powers that be that maybe we can be left to our own devices after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frazer1981 Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 This looks an excellent piece and i congratulate all involved. How will this affect, if it will at all, all those in the middle of training? Sorry if im being stupid?!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted December 5, 2008 Author Share Posted December 5, 2008 show the powers that be that maybe we can be left to our own devices after all. Got it in one Outcast, thats the mission. Frazer1981, Guys in training - you are beginning to follow the new system at the moment. The syllabus will change subtly as our PE's (Panel Examiners), Simon and I adjust it to meet our needs and bring the best we can develop into the system. As I say, the work is in hand as we speak, this is no 'vapour manual' - it exists. I am very aware of my PPG limitations, I do technical writing and bring a systems knowledge to the party, the specialist PPG training aspects come from those with experience in these matters. My own flying training background helps shape our procedures and systems. The blind ain't leading the blind I assure you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outkast Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 show the powers that be that maybe we can be left to our own devices after all. Got it in one Outcast, thats the mission. Frazer1981, Guys in training - you are beginning to follow the new system at the moment. The syllabus will change subtly as our PE's (Panel Examiners), Simon and I adjust it to meet our needs and bring the best we can develop into the system. As I say, the work is in hand as we speak, this is no 'vapour manual' - it exists. I am very aware of my PPG limitations, I do technical writing and bring a systems knowledge to the party, the specialist PPG training aspects come from those with experience in these matters. My own flying training background helps shape our procedures and systems. The blind ain't leading the blind I assure you. Excelent, thats good to hear Norman. The futures bright, the future is sky blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frazer1981 Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Ok I understand this is all work in process so i guess these things need to be bled in! It looks a great idea though and i fully support it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 (edited) All, Thanks for the support! A little information from my side of the goings on... (kept short and sweet) A PMC Pilot will be able to: Get Personal accident insurance cover (at a level that you choose) Get insurance for your kit (while in use) And have the standard 3rd party cover as normal Costs are yet to be pinned down, because we are working on getting the cover (worth having) at the moment. (It will allow 'levels' of insurance though so you choose the cover you want) The cover will be valid in Europe and many other countries (with a small cost for some bizarre countries) The Insurance product is 100% fresh and new, and 100% for PPG pilots, tailored specifically to the needs of one. As such the standard of cover will FAR exceed that of any existing policy available. (because of the PCOM system being in place) There, more as I get it. SW Edited December 5, 2008 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Also, The sharp eyed ones will have spotted that the instructor course is half full, (that means its also half empty) Please contact me directly if you are interested in going on the first PMC instructors course. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frazer1981 Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Ill worry about getting me first flight in first!! That does sound like a good course though and one i would definately be intrested in at some stage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgrant Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Hi, a few questions if you don't mind. When and where will the instructors course take place? What is the criteria for attending? Costs? Will people with BHPA ratings automatically qualify for some or all PMC achievement awards? It certainly sounds interesting and sounds as though we could end up with some pretty good insurance cover. Mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Hi Mark, Where, UK week 1 and Portugal week 2. Criterea, TBC call if interested. Price, 'around' £800 all in, for 2 weeks. Outcome, Full PMC support, instructor insurance, student enquiries and so on... SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 BHPA ratings, Yes (after quick 'free' assessment / coaching session) SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonphotographic Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Great to see the manual continuing to take shape. Well done guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted December 6, 2008 Author Share Posted December 6, 2008 (edited) Will people with BHPA ratings automatically qualify for some or all PMC achievement awards? Mgrant, As Simon says, wherever there is equivilence then there will be cost free recognition. Our achievement system is going to be a little different and that may make equivilence a little difficult to resolve. The 'Badge' system sits clear of the certification process. The two run in parallel. The 'Badges' are all about pilot development and achievements that will build skills and inspire others. That might sound a bit 'high flown' but I can't find a better way of describing what is driving the design. Beyond that..... you are going to have to wait I'm afraid as it is still in development and anything I write here could be outdated quickly. Edited December 12, 2008 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 Ill worry about getting me first flight in first!!That does sound like a good course though and one i would definately be intrested in at some stage Thats the first bit done then. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon_dunn Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 Questions Will the PMC insurance cover match the BHPA cover? What level of insurance will be available to Instructors? If so will the stance on training be set- as novices have to be members, and can only recieve training from qualified instructors? There is strict requirements on the BHPA to attain the cover that they have- i guess the only way it can be matched by the underwriters is to adopt the same pre-requisites. If it is a 'carbon copy' of the BHPA, then do we need it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 Hi Gordon, The insurance that a PMC pilot can obtain will exceed the current offering from the BHPA in terms of personal accident cover and its insured level is selectable by you. It is also taylored to PPG pilots from the outset. (we will be showing a full list of the benefits shortly before launch) Instructors insurance is still being written up. (but its already good and will far exceed any other cover in the UK market place) Our manual is for independant instuctors / pilots in the UK, and nothing like the BHPA system As Norman says, we are still pulling the final bits of this together. We are going to launch with the final product in the first 1/4 of 09. Sorry guys and girls but now your just going to have to wait out for a bit while we polish it all up for your use (or not) SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted December 7, 2008 Author Share Posted December 7, 2008 (edited) Hi Gordon, good questions! If so will the stance on training be set- as novices have to be members, and can only recieve training from qualified instructors? Again insurance is the turn-key. We are still hashing out the detail with our underwriters at the moment. But how we see this working is as follows. If a pilot wishes to be insured then all he need do is meet the terms of the insurance. There are a couple of safety based key exclusions that will limit irresponsible activity thereby reducing underwriter exposure. They won't affect the majority of pilots nor stop people from enjoying themselves legally, but they will calm a few nerves in offices. We do not want to entrap people into some kind of franchise where a rash of costs become unavoidable if you want to get at insurance for your sport and putter around your local area by yourself. That is a guiding principle but the policy detail that we eventually arrive at will necessarily define our landscape. The PMC will need to cover its costs and operate as a business, but it is there for the benefit of the members not an easy meal ticket or the enrichment of a few. Instructors As the training liability question is a biggy you can expect fairly well defined conditions being attached to a policy worth having. Individual instructors will need to decide for themselves whether they embrace the system to reap the benefits. The bottom line option is to carry on as you are which is no worse than what you have now really, is it? Again - the guiding principal is to build something that is fair and attractive, not a monolith (Ian ). There is strict requirements on the BHPA to attain the cover that they have- i guess the only way it can be matched by the underwriters is to adopt the same pre-requisites. The 'same' is the word that doesn't fit there Gordon. If our negotiations with our underwriters go the way they look as if they will, we will be able to offer tiered insurance so that you can choose the level of cover that you are looking for. It will come with tiered costs of course but what insurance doesn't. When experience has been gained we may even be able to look at a 'no claims' system which rewards care, attention and good fortune. That has been discussed but it is one for later. If it is a 'carbon copy' of the BHPA, then do we need it? Time will tell, that comparison has been made by others. Our objective is to enable our members to be able to shape our driving ethos, policy, documents and in that sense maybe the BHPA has something as that is what they are trying to do. But as for long term objectives, I think you will see a fresher shape to the Club and an ability for members to scale their involvement. We think it a healthy thing that the landscape isn't dominated by a single organisation. Maybe the PMC will influence the BHPA and help them create a better organisation. It might be that there is a better shape for PPG going to emerge from this activity, we could fail and have everyone march off in a huff! Who knows? If I stop enjoying what we are doing and see it travel in the wrong direction, I won't continue to be involved in the greater project. Neither will our Panel Examiners, this has to be a positive force for good and offer excellent value and frankly hold the belief and attention of our pilots. There are some hard questions to be faced by everyone involved and some pretty tough moves to be made based around training, qualification and organisation - but they are happening, believe me. Edited December 9, 2008 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donegalwing Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 Guys I am puzzled as to why ye are doing this.....whats wrong with the BHPA route??...why try and write up a training Sylabus when there is an adequate one already in place?...who is going to examine the instructors??? what qualification do they have to rate an instructor???? Seems like this is more for financial gain than the good of the sport of paramotoring.... This is only my opinion, please dont be offended by it......only reading between the lines.... Dean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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