Guest Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 wondering what weight a 4 stroke comes in at i got a motor just weighed it and its 37 kilo with 6 litre of fuel lookin at the figure its a lot of weight is the 4 stroke sameish no wonder my back aches Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_k Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 Ooh that's heavy. With all my kit on, cage , motor, 6 litres (fuel, not motor ), boots, flying attire, helmet and radio gear I am only adding 30Kg to my body weight. Safe flying, Alan Fresh Breeze Airboss, Trekking Civic 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 (edited) Leo, my Bailey weighs exactly 37kg when I have 5 litres of fuel loaded. With that I know I (at 95kg) can fly for 2 hours on fast trim with no reserves. Fuel management becomes much easier with a Quest XC. Alan, could you please tell us the exact accurate weight of your paramotor (engine, cage and harness only). Edited November 15, 2008 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 wow i assumed 30 kilo maybe a little more was norm but obviously not no wonder i am knackered with it on my back might look at another machine dont want rad i know they are light but not want them. maybe just do some squats with it on my back for a few week lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 What type of machine is it and what 'extras' (eg reserve) are you carrying in that weight? Paramotor claimed weights are notoriously untrue and the only one I have found to be honest is Bailey. I suspect Alans idea of what his ancillary kit weighs might be a tad optimistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 its a walkerjet simonini got a reserve not sure what weight it is never weighed it some recon six kilo for reserve? if so i might take it off as i dont know how to use it and it may land me in more bother than not havin it what ya think? i was thinkin wow this is heavy i must be gettin weak but that sort of weight aint somethin you wanna be runnin around too long with is it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 Your reserve, bridles and container are probably closer to 4kg so by the time you add 6 litres of fuel (just over another 4kg) you have 37kg. In other words your Walkerjet weighs 29kg (assuming there are no other 'extras' to come off that figure which actually makes it lighter than many! I have just found some data claiming (probably optimistically as the Solo is not renowned for being the lightest motor) that the FB Airboss with the smaller size cage weighs 26kg so if Alan has no reserve and 6 litres of fuel he is already just over 30kg assuming the given weights are accurate and his supplementary kit weighs nothing! Nobody can make the decision to remove the reserve except you but if I didn't know how to use it properly then I would either get it repacked and get trained on how to use it or I'd take it off and enjoy the lighter weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 yes my thinkin too i think i will remove it i did consider punishin my self with the weight and i would just get used to it but the hard work days are over thanks for your imput Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_b Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 Pete b yes my thinking too i think i will remove it i did consider punishin my self with the weight and i would just get used to it but the hard work days are over thanks for your imput If the shit hits the fan just grab the handle and throw it away from you. Id rather have one that was trying to open than think I should have kept that bit of weight as you are lay seriously injured or DEAD Get used to the little bit of extra weight, it may save your life one day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_k Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 Thanks v23nb for showing the error in my weighs ( oooh I shouldn't do that). I had forgotten that some weight had been added when I got my new cage. The old one was less substantial. I have re-weighed and cage, motor, harness and 4 litres of fuel come in at 33.2Kg. To all newbies out there it really does get easier as your technique improves, I hadn't noticed any problem with a little more weight on board. Forward launches do get easy also. Just be absolutely commited to the launch, if a 72 year old can do it, so can you. Safe flying, Alan Fresh Breeze Airboss, Trekking Civic 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outkast Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 some independent testing carried out here: http://www.ojovolador.com/ppg/tables/heavy.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer_Dave Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 I really cant believe Patrick IS 72. I've seen him run after his dogs when they take off after rabbits and thought he was 60 max. Cant wait to see him journeying between mine and his. What wing are you using Lee? Lift to drag ratio makes a big difference. The power you have with the Simo200 should get you off the ground well before the unit gets too heavy. A less powerfull unit might be lighter but you will run a bit further. What do you weigh? It does get easier with practice. My Flat-top 200 Simo is 30 kg too. Claimed and actual. Slightly better P/W ratio with another 10 kg thrust so off a little quicker (usually). I'm 16 stone but some of my 12 and a half stone mates have flown it and Bill Heaner is about 10 and a half and he made it look the easiest. ps I am going to try to fly the Solo 210 when the HEIS kit is fitted. I bet it wont make TO any easier! Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 i am 12.5 stone and using a action wing so i do have to leg it in nill wind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 Do you give it a good dab of brake to get off the ground before then taking time to feed the brakes back up according to achieved climb performance? This is a technique Rob and I were advised to try by a World Champs pilot earlier this year and that combined with the slow take-off speed of our pseudo-tandem wings has transformed our low/nil wind launch technique. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardc Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 I am with Pete on this one Leo! I can't believe I am reading this forum and a suggestion that not flying with a reserve is acceptable just to save a bit of weight, if you don't know how to use it then find out!. I come from the sport of skydiving and I sometimes find it difficult to comprehend the lack of safety equipment being used in this sport!. Eddie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer_Dave Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 That's a 27 metre Action wing Lee is it? Keep the reserve, mount it on the left comfort bar. Helps counter the torque a little. If you want to cut weight use less fuel load and do shorter flights for a while til you're polished up. Try to choose sites with slight downhill into wind for TO. Be carefull on landing downhill though. Not nice to run out of runway! Use the brakes to unstick, once you cant run any faster. We had some uphill TO's in long grass this year and that was the only way to do it. Hooking toes in long grass can result in faceplanting. And lean back when on the gallop to get the thrust line right. Something I have trouble with. 30 years farming takes it's toll you know? Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 yes dave its a 29 mtre but because of the torke i have put reserve on left a little while ago altered the harness and seems pretty sound now for torke regardin takeoffs so this year i have only done nill wind forwards and ya do got to leg it and use brake to lift but thankfully i have been off most times first time apart from wed which i attempted three times and it took it out of me and i realized the weight of the machine. i first thought it was me gettin too soft and weak maybe a bit of that plus the weight lol anyway i am out tomorrow up up and away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer_Dave Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Good for you if you're nailing forward launches first time. We all get the odd 3 rd attempt. I had a 5 oneday. That was a bit gruelling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Hi Welder - better not let V23b hear you talking like that. He loves his Bailey as do a few others. They can even bring a compelling argument for the things based around weight and fuel consumption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 The Baileys do surprise people when they put them on... ask Farmer Dave and Francis. In fact there's many a 2 stroke that's heavier than the Bailey. It is kinda hard to argue against a Fresh Breeze though as they really are rather good. I particularly like the Sportix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 what do them fresh breeze weigh as i dont think there would be a great deal in it is there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 I tend to take the 'safety reports' from people who's position is not to produce them with a pinch of salt (more so when they compete in the same marketplace) I am sure that the owners of the units would have made a song and dance about it themselfs if they were so concerned. Nuff said from me on that. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_b Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 tire you out,most blokes on here are not power lifters so why buy a heavy 4 stroke?its beyond comprehension,,,buy a light weight freshbreeze instead you wont look back and parts back up are fantastic Baileys may weigh a bit but the do not feel heavy when you have them on your back as they seem to sit just right. I have a Simonini in a parajet frame and ready to fly (less fuel it weighs 33 kilos), but then you don't stand around with it on your back, get everything ready clip in start it and go (practise practise practise) Pete b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer_Dave Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 In a small market place, the competition seems to be quite fierce. Understating weights and overstating performance, seem to be commonplace. Safety is a point worth looking at. The noise a unit makes is a consideration for both you and people on the ground. Economy might not be quite as important, unless you require a long autonomy for competition, or you're a bit of a "green" like me. Pilot comfort and the torque affect are probably ranked above economy. The initial buying price seems to be put high on the list, but, when looking at that, you should add the cages and props you might break. Especially in your early flights. To date, any unit you buy will be a compromise, in one area or more, including the one I fly. You need to choose what's important to you, before you buy one, and choose which compromise you can put up with. I would really like to fly 4 stroke so I compromise by flying a 2 stroke , for the bit of extra power, because I'm heavy, and enjoy a bit of dynamic turning. My hangpoints aren't as low as I would like but I enjoy the security of extra (maybe unique) safety in fixed hang points. The damnd thing's on the heavy side, but not for long, and the extra 16 inches of crumple zone under my backside is reassuring as is the huge frame around the prop. Both nice if you have a bad crash. Whatever you buy, get good training and be carefull with it. After a bit of experience with one unit, you might find that your second one is a better choice for you. Most of the above, probably, applies to the wing you fly too. Just my take on the subject. Definately no expert, by any means! Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 good advise and its true about the compromise you do loose in some ways and gain in others with machines i am happy with what i got, the strength and power outweighs the weight and i assume there aint a great difference in the weight of the different machines maybe 3 kilo or so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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