wing tip steerer??

[Guest]

The above is a classic example of why sending in a report to someone trained by the AAIB and empowered to take the testimony of witnesess, then compile a report to the AAIB, the commander involved and the manufacturer(s), and eventually to the general pilotage is much better than examination by forum. Already we see anedotal evidence, suggestions and opinoins none of which can ever get at the facts. (no criticism of Paul or Ian - thanks for your contributions)

AAIB inspectors have legal powers to investigate and are constrained by law as to what they can make public and whether any evidence is then admissable in any further action. All these checks and balances are mising from a forum discusion of the incident. Apart from anything the implications for the busineses involved are severe from misinformed and unregulated speculation.

Much better to appoint an investigator and give him powers and a legal framnework, supply him with the facts and let him quietly get on with the job. The AAIB mission statement describes the "no-blame" accident prevention and prediction focus of their remit.

In their wisdom they have delegated this power to the BHPA in respect of non-fatal accidents in SPHG related incidents. They will also accept reports directly and these will be passed to the BHPA inspector for primary investigation. Thats the way it is set up for us at present.

Too many serious incidents are going unreported but not un-noticed; we may be enjoying a "fools paradise" at present. I have argued that this is due to pilots not knowing, or being made aware of the system that exists or their duty to report under the law. That argument is now wearing very thin.

Edited October 13, 2008 by Guest

[Guest]

Just a note to add the fact that I have just discovered that the new wing I was flying on Friday (as yet unnamed) was not fitted with its proper riser set yet but when production commences it will have tip steering as standard.

[pete_b]

With regard to my brake handle winding in, this can happen to any make of reflex wing when on fast trim, with your hang points incorrectly adjusted as the rear risers are then not under any tension and hang back in the wind.

I put an elastic band around the risers to hold the c/d lines forward when on fast trim, this worked well for the rest of the trip.

You have to have your hang points set right or you will bring the top of the cage/prop close to the risers and if you hit turbulence hands off you could be in trouble (trust me you do not want that to happen, poo pants time).

The tip steering kit on the reaction does not have a slipping knot there are three lines that all loop together( one is the tip steer line then you have a line from the mall ion, these two lines then interlink with the line coming down from the wing ie three separate lines ) so they cannot slip, perhaps this could be done on the revo ect.

Pete b

[Guest]

Now its clear,

Having now spoken to the person who was piloting this wing, we are both 99% sure that it was the end result of the wing being sucked into the propellor during a prior flight attempt.

Ref Auto linking, thanks for pointing out my errors, I will change them. Find any more let me know

Thats what makes this site so great, we all love to help each other

SW

Edited October 16, 2008 by Guest

[Guest]

I do tend to agree with Pete as I said,

I think the Dudek TST set up is beter than the one used by Paramania. ( In that is can not move / slip )

All good for the progression of the sport.

SW

[macey2kk]

just for the record, my wing is a brand new revo size 30.

it came with the tip steerers already fitted, and my problem was partly my fault as ( not being familiar with the wing ) i assumed that the knots were meant to be slip knots where the tst meets the main line ( the only red one on the mallion )

my knot must have slid down without me seeing it giving extra slack to it - resulting in it entering the prop.

i have reported it to paramania france today and they are sending me new ones - small consolation i suppose!

for the record also my wing didnt come with a manual and the one thats downloadable from the site doesnt show the tst lines. or... any diagram for tying the knot - i have asked for this diagram to be sent to me. but im not too confident as the language barrier was quite high, exuse moi, mon francais et tres petitte!

does anyone have a picture / instruction on a "proper" knot to secure the tst in place? - and am i correct in assuming that it needs to be stretched fully at the point where it attaches?

thanks all -- glad to have started a debate!! makes for interesting reading!

ps -- next mod -- cage netting -- anyone recommend a supplier of orange mesh?

[Guest]

I am not experienced with the tip steering system. I would like to know what improvement over simply usin/pulling the stabilo line it offers?

I know Simon , you used the velcro pad to maintain some tip steer to counter torque. Other than that is it easier to reach that the stabilo line or that the addition of the pad/handle makes it easier to locate?

The Swing Arcus 1,2 and 3 employ an additional line joining the stabilo line to the brake line about 1/3 way up and it pulls down on the stablio line when the brake control is pulled down part way. This is what make steh Arcus so agile IMO. Obviously this is no good on the reflex as the whole point is not to use any brake when the reflex is in full use. BUT I can see a way to use a sliding ring rather than fixed attachment in this location to give a dual use to the control handles for 'brake and tip' or 'tip only'.

[Guest]

Thats a good point,

Even thought my kit is fitted, I normally just reach up for the line anyway.

High hang point pilots are unlikely to be able to reach the stabilo line unless a T Steering kit is fitted (an extension).

SW

[irm750]

I retro fitted the wingtip kit to my revo.

Below is an animated step by step guide to the knott.

http://www.animatedknots.com/prusikscouting/

The link to the actual instructions on the Paramania web site which I used seems to be broken -

http://www.flyparamania.com/images/wingtipkit%20instructionsv2.pdf

I downloaded it to my computer. If you want to PM me your email address then I will send it through.

Best regards,

Ian.

[Phil_P]

My Swing Arcus has a series of tip lines that are incorporated in the normal brake line system. The later Arcus models have a true stabilo line system with the tip lines being on an independent riser.

Would it work if I was to run an extra line from the free pulley on the risers up to the upper cascades where the line splits off for the tips, thus giving me a tip steering system? I'm thinking that this extra line would tend to only actuate the tips and not put on the brakes on the rest of the wings width.

[edit]

Francis, I missed your post regarding the Arcus. It would seem from your description of the brake action, that my idea would be superfluous.

[/edit]

Edited October 17, 2008 by Guest

[macey2kk]

I retro fitted the wingtip kit to my revo.

Below is an animated step by step guide to the knott.

http://www.animatedknots.com/prusikscouting/

The link to the actual instructions on the Paramania web site which I used seems to be broken -

http://www.flyparamania.com/images/wingtipkit%20instructionsv2.pdf

I downloaded it to my computer. If you want to PM me your email address then I will send it through.

Best regards,

Ian.

hi ian, really appreciate that.... pm sent! thnx

[Guest]

Would it work if I was to run an extra line from the free pulley......................................

You would have to answer your own question as I dont know anyone who has tried it.

I feel a fixed, rather than slip-able line, and a retained handle e.g. through a pulley would improve on the safety aspect discussed in this thread (with the caution that any modification of this sort may invalidate insurance and pilot rating and wing certification etc).....

The BHPA have a rating called "development pilot" which covers a pilot doing that sort of wing mod. I have an arcus 1 that I might try your idea on in the near future.

[Guest]

I have just added another loop to my TST lines and tightened them, and hey presto... cant make it slip.

Will fly it today.

For sure the simple answer here it to use another type of knott.

SW

[alanhinsaudi]

I had a problem with my wing tip steering but slightly different from above.

I check the position of the tip steering knot on pre-flight religiously but after a couple of failed launches the right hand side one it must have caught on something and the knot moved up the line. After getting airborne I always check my lines and noticed that the right tip steer was applied. I considered cutting the tip steer line with my hook knife but after checking my flight characteristics I found no ill effects. I immediately landed and corrected the problem. I now religiously re-check the position of the tip steer lines after recovering from failed launches.

Alan