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In a long queue but another wannabe pensioner pilot looking for a wing to kite, Please


Skipper101
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Hallo Everyone 

ok , Im almost a pensioner 64 and a half , and I’m not ashamed (anymore!) lol , please can some kind pilot sell me a wing to kite,  . I cannot afford the motor yet, well not anything actually!!  So cheaper would be really helpful. I search  eBay and Gumtree all to no avail as I get squeezed out and I’m losing the will to bid lol   I want to get up there ASAP , so at this stage I’m doing what I can afford that’s kite and you tube and learn by watching other people.  Next year is the year.....so unwise as it might be ,  and I know it’s a cliche but you only live once....etc etc

Please help this old guy out  and Thankyou, even if you can’t help for reading my wanted ad. Great Flights to you 

PS if anyone else flies in the Islands or Hebrides please make contact ? I am serious about this mad adventure that is paramotoring and would love to hang with like minded dudes lol

Edited by Skipper101
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Welcome to the Paramotor Club!! :-)

I quite fancy a mini adventure to the Heb's!! (in the summer) lol 

My advice would be to get a wing that you can actually fly. The painful truth is that if you are unable to afford it now it's even worse economy to spend money that you could be saving towards your 'actual' wing. I know that's not what you want to hear but it's what you need to hear. :-( sorry.... 

Stick it out until next year, keep saving and you will make it to the dream!!! :-)

SW :D

 

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Excellent advice 

Thankyou 

So If I may as, ...... obviously I have been looking at beginner slow wings and brand new ones are all sorts of prices but It seems 2000 should cut it ..... which is feasible if I did the engine the following year but  Then there is the weight  issue I will be 13 stone but ........ can you take a wing ? And then match it with any engine?

the thought being I want a light motor so I can starve lol cheaper than a bigger paramotor ! But given I will be flying in semi Munro (small mountains) territory will power be a consideration.   years ago I did paramotor just a week in Eastern Europe 

but know nothing only a few solo flights and not my own kit oh and if you ever want to fly here ,  you can camp on my ground  and there’s a few but good flat spaces on the island and I can watch just how the real guys do it

 

 

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I bought a wing with 30 hours on it. Can't tell the difference between it and a new wing. It was £1500. You have to wait for prices like that, but they do happen.

I still use the wing I trained on, an Ozone Roadster (B wing, but lovely and stable for learning on). If you want to fly slow, low and not do any crazy fast turns, then you will never need anything else. I am now at 170 hours.

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Second hand, £2k will get you a decent wing if you buy carefully :-) Most of the wings for sale here are from known people who would not sell the wrong wing to the wrong person at the wrong price we are a kind people lol :-)

Check out the classifieds where you can also list a wanted... List your weight (mention that's without the paramotor) and this lot will see you right :-) 

And yes, wing first then motor... :-) Matching is no problem as long as your wing is a 'paramotor' / certified for paramotor wing. :-) 

SW :D

 

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Well , that’s all good.  I had looked at ozone on you tube but I guess whatever you fly on yourself is going to be right god knows it’s kept you safe........ but It had been designed for slower flights , but seemed to allow for a modicum of boundary pushing as and when your skills increased the  Ozone Roadster ok , I will look harder

AND 

 

thankyou for the matching confirmation , ok find the wing love it learn it then match it ,  and finally one last question which is only an idle one but by the time you have

a reserve (which presumably is worth buying new!!! Lol), I will be over or near water a lot and flotation device?  And sufficient safe fuel for the flight or flights it seems to me your ferrying a lot of kit around do you calculate that and add that to your own weight as the criteria for wing choice or does that have more influence on the engine power choice.  Love the craic , I have flown  and wobbled into the sky and sank to my knees on landing but I can’t get it out of my head ..... I have to go and make a prat of myself again , until I don’t 😂or it bites me back 

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Flotation device: I have mixed feelings about these...

I think they are a good idea, but in the same sense.. I don't think they are a good idea if you are going to have the mind set that it will save your life. There are a few reported cases where they have flipped the pilot on to his / her face. 

The only thing to say about water is don't. 

Reserve: Always a good idea and it is OK to buy one second hand from a trusted source.

SW :D

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11 hours ago, Skipper101 said:

a reserve (which presumably is worth buying new!!! Lol), I will be over or near water a lot and flotation device?

In my twenty plus years of flight, I can only remember one time where I seriously began prepping for a reserve toss because of how turbulent the air was.... Very unlikely to ever need one but i do like to fly with one.

Water, 100% margin for error!
This will probably come naturally once it dawns on you just how easily landing in water will end your game for good.
If I lived on Sky, I and most others would cross the bodies of water (how could you not :) ).... But would do so without exiting the ability to land (or even crash) on SOLID GROUND.
Your engine off glide ratio of 6:1 could easily drop to 1:1 in a head wind and raise too 10:1+ if you turn around for the tail wind.... lots to think about before you start leapfrogging over to Applecross :) 

 

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MMMM ALL excellent advice theres no doubt, so a BIG thankyou.  Interesting the flotation conundrum,  perhaps after all IF you do find yourself entering water ( what is called in GA a controlled water landing lol....which makes Sully Sullenbergers achievement totally amazing) but I have always thought was complete )&*^(&*^&^cks its a crash and drown maybe....so you might be better having a drill and make sure you can slip out of the harness easily and given your already out the seat. loosen legs straps and or shoulder straps who knows. Im only trying to pick up on the idea of NOT investing too much hope or faith in armbands lol, so flotation seems a bit of a nono ok

picking up on the reserve issue, OK its there and at sufficient height will save your neck....thank you. This seems like a preoccupation with in flight emergency when im already in a blimmin parachute lol, so im just wetting my pants .  The  really serious issue seems to be dont fly over water anyway, so footdragging my way over to Lewis is out then lol. Point taken

Isnt it great these folks are chipping in with advice....I just missed out out on an Ozone wing (Ground Handling ONLY) admittedly for £150.00

I cried ...when I got outbid lol. I hear what you say about waiting to buy and YOU are right but I cant wait to learn the ground side ALL the videos seem to say if your a good ground handler you will be a better pilot and easier launches and just generally be  more wing happy

 

 

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There is a video of one of our UK guys having a splash. If you are at height and know you are going to land in water, then you can undo all straps and be ready to jump out of the seat. I have seen another video where someone jumps out of the seat, just as his feet hit the water. Because of the removal of his weight from the wing, the wing and machine then continued to fly on, away from him. The advice is always not to jump as some people panic and jump when too high.

 

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1 hour ago, Skipper101 said:

so flotation seems a bit of a nono ok

I'm not sure Simon is going that far... Flotation, if set up well will help prevent a quick/sudden drowning... If you are more than a few hundred meters offshore in cold open water, I still wouldn't fancy my chances against a slightly slower drowning.
Treat the water like larva :) 

 

1 hour ago, Skipper101 said:

good ground handler you will be a better pilot

Its a safe introduction into active flying, you cannot do too much ground handling... Not sure how much of that skill you will have access to when your feet first leave the floor and your mind caves in on itself in the utter bewilderment of flight. 

I have seen folks slam into the ground for the lack of a tiny bit more processing power.
Ground handling and launching are hard, flying in calm conditions is very very easy in comparison but you would be surprised at how quickly the brain can turn to mush when presented with alarming new things (even when those things are in reality, quite benign)

It is a classic error to release power the moment you leave the ground, the glider dives, you swing under the glider and contact the ground before your logic catches up and hits the power again or flares hard... smashing all you lovely gear... and maybe an ankle or two.
That's a classic example of the subliminal mind taking charge and saying "Don't like, Stop".
These traps quickly disappear with familiarity.
Its the reason why having a good instructor/training is the optimal option.
Having said that, I am also one of those who took things into my own hands so I am not unsympathetic. 

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Well thats all very interesting.....yes ok flotation has to be there but only as an aid to keeping the hardware afloat affording you the precious seconds to extricate yourself. The video was rather awful a bit like watching a car crash, the apparent calmness of the flight followed by the inevitability pf an immersion and then the choking as its awfulness . I felt that,  i swear , excellent piece of training footage...and its bought home to me your remarks about staying away from water..... also really interesting remarks concerning stepping off the throttle as your feet leave the ground, its kind of like once we push the throttles pilots are assisted by others or electro mechanically to keep the power where it should be, fully applied until the safe height  , how many times do we hear how altitude is our friend BUT having said all that the increased noise, the anxiety and relief as adrenaline pumps through you and being alone it must be super easy to happen,  I hope above all my hand would remain pinned to the max the second there was a commitment to flight but so easy said and truth I could be just that man....."These traps quickly disappear with familiarity.
Its the reason why having a good instructor/training is the optimal option." YES this is good....never a better reason is there. I have heard that the angle of the thrust by standing well upright or possibly lying against the thrust optimises the efficiencies and enables shorter take off runs. Is that your experience?  Im sure I will be like a drunk Gannet trying to stay under the wing , shouting run run run and having the runs lol

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Back to the original question, I bought a cheap GH wing before training.

Then I bought a decent wing after training.

There is a big difference between the two. But it was launchable, and I did use it if the weather was rubbish, or there were dogs running around on public land or whatever.

It depends if you have anyone local to help you. I struggled trying to follow youtube tutorials with it, because it just wasn't that forgiving. I'd have definitely had more luck with my new one.

But once I knew what I was doing, I could launch it and handle it. So you may get somewhere with a cheap one.

Then when I finished I sold it for what I paid for it. So it wasn't a waste of money, just maybe keep your expectations in check, especially if you dont have anyone to teach you.

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I get this that’s a really balanced commentary ,  cheap is what it is cheap and your super lucky if it does the job you hoped ie be great for ground handling training and you wouldn’t want to do all that hard work and then find you couldn’t fly the wing you might eventually buy etcetera

so invest in the final wing , that’s your  experience and it worked wonders for you

t depends if you have anyone local to help you. I struggled trying to follow youtube tutorials with it, because it just wasn't that forgiving. I'd have definitely had more luck with my new one.

I think the core of your opinion lies therein, that’s exactly what I’m doing You tubing my experience and you know exactly how safe armchair pilots are! I WILL get formal PPG  instruction,  before I go up but I’m just trying to increase my chances as I can’t afford to do otherwise and Im the wrong side of the Urals lol and the closest pilot is still a long ways though having said that driving the Glencoe last week one wonderful ppg pilot was cruising and landed in the middle of the moor adjacent to the kings head hotel, awesome I was so envious ,  it was so cool in the shadow of the ski resort he landed on a pocket handkerchief 

 

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58 minutes ago, Skipper101 said:

Is that your experience?

There are many things to keep tabs on so you MUST be disciplined and drill yourself on the various considerations.
A "trap" is easily overlooked and might cost you a propeller or worse.
IF you tune your ground handling to perfection, 100% muscle memory, then add the motor (not running) until you are 100% at home with that, then have it running (allowing a blip or two of the throttle to help push you forward in a taxi)..... That is a lot of work and time to get to this point, you are now one squeeze away from a launch.... You launch, climb and discover the field you launched from looks WAY too small to land in AND you are extremely close to "brain mush" because its your first flight and the feeling of your wing in the air is brand new to you... "is this right?... am I going to die?... is it better to crash into this tree than attempt to turn?"....

Its pretty tough on your own.... Doable but tough...
An instructor would say something like "Okay Skipper, everything looks great, climb to 500ft, catch your breath, relax, do some circuits and have fun, ill call you when its time for a landing"... You might not be what we would call "calm" but you will be calm enough to think
He can take 80% of the stress of flight out of your first flights leaving you to turn left, turn right, add or remove power and acclimatize :) 

 

6 minutes ago, Skipper101 said:

I WILL get formal PPG  instruction,

EDIT: Ignore the above, I wasn't sure if you were going 100% rogue.... 50% rogue is a splendid choice :) 

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Really well said ,  we want to do this thing because ,?  I mistakenly thought because it’s super cool, and a plane in the boot and a thousand other reasons that are as personal as the individuals but actually it’s hunting down the competence not being better than anyone just better than yourself,  facing the fear is unlocked by not being the mediocre bloke or blokess  we are all normally and for a change being good at something, that’s not to boast about but just know your good at something which in my case is pretty rare lol

and applying yourself, evaluating the weather, the site, the day, the mission and your inner self and learning from others which is why the generosity of everyone’s comments is truly heartwarming , bringing together a community of like minded people however far they be flying.  The idea of that pocket handkerchief being the football field you left from is really a hometruth I can imagine and having some cool dude on the ears telling you it’s ok must be a massive boost so as they say in all the good you tube videos , this is no substitute for real training but it’s hugely interesting to hear from pilots personal opinions. Thank you

I feel part of a wider group already Great Come n fly this awesome place even fly off Barra Beach a short ferry ride away, as You can’t fly there lol

 

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19 hours ago, Skipper101 said:

Barra Beach

That's a cool spot!
15 mile open water crossing..... On a still day with zero wind gradient (almost unheard of), assuming you had a 6:1 glide you would need to be at 6600ft+ to glide to either shore from the centre of the crossing... I am 90% sure I could do it and 99.9% sure I wouldn't attempt it, even at 12000ft :) 

If i knew the ferry captain and he agreed to keep tabs as i followed and pluck me out if it all went tits... THEN I might but I am sure I would still feel pretty exposed at 7.5 miles from shore.

My biggest water crossing was only 1 mile at 4500ft with a tail wind (free flight ).... Could have crossed it twice but it still made my skin crawl.

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I recall when i flew on the inside of aeroplanes! That my skipper said to me....No worries Phil remember the aircraft doesn't know its over the water and I have drawn comfort from that a few times however NO, I read that these 2 stroke engined aircraft are vulnerable to simply having a bad day and I should expect engine failure as the norm!  Rather than something you talked about in the pub....that video I had the link sent to me recently portrayed stretching the glide painfully well and in his case it kinda didn't ...and hanging from the underside of the aircraft....thats really pants wetting to know you cant get that glide, the Gimley Glider just did lol but IF I were on the south coast looking out over the straits of Gibraltar looking at the blue dark ridge of the RIF and in your weather I can see how enticing a flight that is after all a truly intercontinental one! Definitely a rioja moment if ever

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Barra and its two mile long cockleshell beach is undeniably one of the most scenic flying areas anywhere and its on my bucket list for sure , but just Barra - Barra lol.....the island is linked by a causeway to Vatersay and it would make stunning  footage , a low flight along it

and I can virtually see Barra today and they say if you can't see it from Skye, there is bad weather and if you can see it.....there's bad weather coming lol

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  • 2 weeks later...

OK peeps....thank you. I have just spent all the wife's savings and bought the whole kit and caboodle. So now my crispy wing and brand new engine are just waiting for me to do what with, well im gonna kite n kite n kite and then some, wear the engine run it up lots get used to the feel and then find myself some help to take the next step....So a huge Thank You for all your advice I did listen but the chap in the red suit stood behind my left shoulder  and I realised that I can still run faster than my wife! lol and when asked I will  say well these nice folks on Paramotorclub.org said!lol can't wait, now for a go pro lol

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3 minutes ago, Skipper101 said:

bought the whole kit and caboodle

You don't fcuk about!
 

4 minutes ago, Skipper101 said:

im gonna kite n kite n kite and then some

In a massive flat field in sub 10mph winds... You still might get tossed around a bit but you are unlikely to get dragged far and knock your brains out on a post, tree, rock... Or god forbid, tear your crispy wing on one of those killer Scottish thistles :) 
Its a lot of fun and great exercise... Be strict, its a frustrating game, calling bad weather is way less disappointing that damaging gear, or worse.

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