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Thrust - To much or not enough.? That is the question


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Hi, Im still very new to the sport and definatly still learning. I've been looking at engine and one of the points I find interesting is how much thrust? Is there a table or rule of thumb that shows the required thrust to AUW? Or is there more to it. Any info mating or direction would be most appreciated. Cheers in advance. 

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There is no right or wrong. However, less thrust = a longer take off run. Also, the heavier you are = a longer take off run. A smaller wing = a longer take off run.

If you are say 80 kg or over then you probably want any of the 200 cc size as going smaller will just make it difficult for you.

Going bigger can also make it more difficult as too much power can cause more issues that you don't want while learning.

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29 minutes ago, AndyB said:

 

If you are say 80 kg or over then you probably want any of the 200 cc size as going smaller will just make it difficult for you.

I don’t know anything about power to weight charts with regards to thrust but just wanted to step in slightly. I’m not trying to argue but the above is a little wrong.

Im 120kg and have no issues with a moster 185cc, short take offs and good climb rate. 

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9 hours ago, Paul (Jay) Jacques said:

Hi, Im still very new to the sport and definatly still learning. I've been looking at engine and one of the points I find interesting is how much thrust? Is there a table or rule of thumb that shows the required thrust to AUW? Or is there more to it. Any info mating or direction would be most appreciated. Cheers in advance. 

Speak with your instructor or give a dealer a call and discuss your All up weight, Fitness level, and the type of flying you want to do..  They will be able to advise you on a suitable engine or Paramotor set up that will suit YOU.. 

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Thanks to all for your comments. Kind of already thought it was a long shot looking for a table or chart. As you all say to many veritables in the equation. My instructor has already stated what I will need (monster) and I will continue to learn. I may be looking for a simplistic approach to AUW and required thrust. Cheers.

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My first engine had a good amount of power, helps to get you in the air and away from the ground quickly but once I knew what I was doing and had some experience, the overwhelming priority was low weight and high reliability so I switched, in my case to a top 80 mini plane which is a joy. However, in still air and on a hot day when I have a failed take off three times in a row, I do wish I had more power. 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I know guys who fly 120's...guys of upwards of 100kg in body weight.

It's more about what wing you fly than the motor. If your engine c.c. is small, go for a larger lower end wing.

 

As an illustration, I have two ppg units...both 200's. One has a shit prop on it which doesn't produce much thrust...but this unit is also 7kg lighter than my other 200 with the good prop.

 

Now I can fly my 25m Dudek Universal with either ppg unit no problem.

 

I recently purchased a 22m Ozone Sirrocco...I am yet to successfully get off the ground on this wing using the ppg with the shit prop (I have tried more than a dozen launches over a couple of days going home both times completely knackered and very very frustrated! On one launch, i got it above my head and ran 50 meters...not once during that run did i ever get the feeling i was going to get airborne...i felt more like a turkey heading for (and straight through) the nearest fence at full tit.

However I can successfully launch it with the unit that has the better prop.

The moral of the story...the difference in my case between flying and not with the low thrust unit is definitely the wing...it's reasonably easy to launch the larger lower end glider with it, the faster higher end Sirrocco...virtually impossible.

Edited by adamjedgar
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That turkey heading for the fence feeling in nil wind is why I recently got a Tornado. I also fly off the beach, with really soft sand that grabs onto you. As well as running I have to try and jump with each step so the thrust has more time to accelerate me before the next foot hits the ground.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have an update here that has surprised me to the point of shock. I ran into a guy yesterday (not literally btw), who wwighs 84kg, was flying a top 80, and a 19 metre Ozone Freeride.

For those who haven't heard of Tucker Gott, the Free ride is just below the viper in performance...it's a pretty high end wing.

I am still trying to figure out how the heck he gets it into the air with a top 80 at his body weight...surely it must be pretty marginal? 

Oh, I did ask him about using the speed system with it...he said he is yet to try...so Perhaps that answers the question as I have my musings as to whether an 84kg pilot could maintain level flight on full speed system with a top 80 and the Free ride? It takes me back to one particular memorable flight I had in Glass house mountains in QLD Australia with the 25m Dudek Universal and Nirvana Rodeo 200. At one point I hit sink so bad, even at full throttle wing set full slow, I went down at over 400 feet per minute losing hundreds of feet of altitude. I shit myself as I was sure I was going to be pushed all the way down to bush and scrub below. Eventually I flew threw it and came away with a few hundred feet to spare...losing 400ft of my altitude (i was at 600 initially) I perish the thought as to what the outcome would have been on a top80!

Edited by adamjedgar
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  • 2 months later...

 There are a lot of pilots who fly the wrong equipment, This sport has so many variables it would be virtually impossible to have a chart... Experience and pilot skill will mean they can fly to extremes be it small wings for speed agility or at the limit of there motor..  
Basically if you can not not use Bar and stay level your motor is not powerful enough or your wing is to small. Ideally you would have 100-200 fpm climb on bar.. Of course If you NEVER use bar the same appie for trims out...   You also have to think WHY fly your motor at full WOT everywhere? Mr GOTT would be circa 5.5kg P m2 this really isn't loaded at all, Plus the free Ride is very efficient.  I am fairly light  so as an example it would be the same as me on a Top 80 flying 22m...  I used to fly a Bailey V5 in comps on a 24m a heavier machine set up  but with around the same Power to weight.. 

A new pilot should really be looking to sit in high 4's Low 5kg m2  160kg all up  flying 33m 5kg p m2 
A friend of mine had a miniplane top 80 for around 600 hours flying a 26m speedster he was 85kg..  roughly 4kg p m2
My 15m free ride i fly or flew at 7.8kg p m2 bar was nearly full power on my 250 giving 150 fpm climb.. 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

During my training week i was setup for my first flight on a V3 with a Moster 185. just before i was about to take off the exhaust started to rattle  so the decision was made to move me over to a V3 with a Top 80 (as it was spare and we were losing light). at 86KG's (bodyweight) i got off the ground after about 8 steps once the power was on. the climb rate was much slower but do able. this is with an Ozone spark wing.

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another thing i havent seen mentioned here is full throttle engine rpm on big vs small engines.

 

the little top 80 i imagine is doing a crapload more rpm than my simo 200 to get me airborne. So i am of the view that the big engine working easy is going to last a whole lot longer between engine rebuilds, and is also going to be a lot more reliable because it is not working so hard all the time.

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