Jump to content

Flying in cloud


Recommended Posts

ANO classifies us as a glider. Gliders are allowed under certain conditions to fly in cloud whereas microlights are not. However common sense says that flying in cloud is not a good idea in our craft and also don't forget the dangers of your wing getting seriously wet.

PS there are also differences between gliders and microlights with respect to the rules for overflight of built up areas.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It also depends what class of airspace you are in too Phil.

When you think that clouds, particularly building cumulous types will have lots of super cooled water droplets in them it makes sense to keep that big scoop above your head away as much as possible.

Not found any mentions anywhere of icing on paramotors, but I'm sure that too should be another deterrent.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well I understand the practical aspects, ie waterlogged or frozen wing, but from a 'bumping into others' point of view, you are no more likely to collide than you are in a light aircraft, which can legitimately fly in cloud (I've done it). If you have a RAS from a participating controller, that part shouldn't be a problem, as they'll steer you round any other echo they've got. Wings like ours are inherently more stable than a light aircraft, so basic altitude and heading instruments should stop you from flying upside down, resulting in controlled flight into terrain.

Must admit, the thought of taking a SRA or PAR approach to a field would be quite fun, slow, but fun :twisted:

"Ermm Waddington zone Flexwing One requests SAR to your location as now IMC and temporarily unsure of my position"

PS, look up the abreviations if you want to know :wink:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting discussion. It is of course illegal, the rules of the air prohibit it as VMC cannot be maintained and the aircraft cannot fly to IFR - just not equipped. It is like asking a sailing boat to become a submarine.

Flying a paramotor in the vicinity, particularly around the base of convective clouds may make you VERY prone to being sucked up into them. One of the hazards of abandoning an aircraft (ejecting/baling out) after an encounter with a thunderstorm is the possibility that you may get rapidly sucked up into the CB and die after a series of ascents/descent within. It happened to a couple of paraglider pilots a couple of years back, I reported it here. Still not convinced?

A friend of mine got spat out of the side of a CB in an iced up sailplane after climbing into the base of an innocent and insignificant cumulus cloud that grew like topsy whilst he was inside it. The glider was so badly iced up that he jettisoned the canopy with the intention of abandoning the glider having lost control. He was shocked to discover himself at over 20,000' (his barograph confirmed his climb). After he landed he was well shaken and slightly frost bitten around the face and neck. I had to help him out of the glider. It was a lovely summers day.

Few flying machines lend themselves so well to this kind of accident as a paramotor/glider.

Scud running, flying marginal VFR in anything, particularly in the open FIR is particularly dangerous these day. To do it in something so lacking in maneuverability that paints such a poor picture on any radar screen is a dubious practice, perhaps even Darwinian. Ask V23b what he thinks of the idea, he will have his stories to tell as well, living on the outskirts of the London TMA and flying light aircraft (Wycombe Air park).

Go on - give it a try! :twisted: On second thoughts.... why not just watch the show from the bar!

thunderstorm2.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Legally for a paraglider, I dont know for a paramotor, you actually fly the aircraft IMC in certain airspace to permit cloud flying.

its part of the BHPA pilot exam.

Yes IMC flight on PG allows flight in cloud by law, you dont need a radio in all types of airspace.

flak jacket on ready for the flames.

kind regards

simon

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Simon,

Don't worry matey, I don't do flames. Having had another look at it I cannot see where you get your information from that indicates that IFR/IMC operation of paragliders is permitted. You can circle to cloud-base but must maintain VMC otherwise.

Below 3000' amsl "Clear of cloud, in sight of the surface and flight viz of 1.5 km" is the rule as far as I can establish. Above 3000' the parameters change but not the entitlement to fly within cloud. Anyone else care to comment?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

vmc flight requires observation of vfr and imc requires observation of ifr. The question is "is it possible to observe ifr in class G without instruments?" or put another way "what is the minmun instrumentation required to observe ifr in class G?" the anser is in the rules.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

:D Quite agree Francis, just as the next best seller is (buried) in the dictionary... :wink:

Paragliders are not equipped nor certified for IFR flight. I don't know of any exemptions that have been issued but am curious as to your reading Simon. Do you have a form of words that makes you think it so as I am intrigued and always keen to learn.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's all getting quite interesting now.

As our aircraft aren't registered or certified in any shape or form, it would be impossible for them to be certified to fly IFR, but then they aren't certified for VFR flight either, are they.

As far as instrumentation goes, we don't need the artificial horizon (or alternative instrumentation) as you do with an aircraft to prevent loss of control. Let go of everything including the throttle, and unless you are in lift then you are going to descend safely. With a compass and an altimeter, you could probably fly safely from A to B just flying constant heading and altitude. Maybe Ill try it with blackout goggles and a mate flying along for safety. In an aircraft, if you try to fly by body feedback, then you will likely experience loss of control within about 10 seconds UNLESS you believe your instruments.

Please note, I don't think that flying one of our wings through nice soggy clouds is a good idea, but am intrigued as to legality which seems debatable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Phil,

I don't want to play the smartarse but I wanted to get to the bottom of this and offer below something a little more definitive so that the question doesn't 'hang'.

Paramotoring operates in the UK through a CAA Exemption as we know, it is therefore an unregulated airsport.

The answer to our question lies in the terms of that exemption as it outlines amongst other things, the limitations and restrictions on the type, size and weight of our footlaunched machine and restricts the flight conditions that they may operate in.

When I suggested that paramotors are not certified for IFR flight, that is what I meant, that the Exemption wouldn't allow it, and from the text and table below we can see that it doesn't.

Here are the relevant extracts from the Exemption which cover the question.

20080511-bxut2migidmn34ebbp9fa1b14s.png

You are dead right Phil, they are interesting questions and understanding and researching them widens our collective knowledge for which I for one am grateful.

PS: Unconnected but the DVD 'Why we Fly' is a great watch. Great photography... :D

20080511-e3egpiub3kajfx2s1sq1mdgfy5.png

20080511-m6678wnu5ws83wunbc8yenhgwh.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Paramotoring operates in the UK through a CAA Exemption as we know, it is therefore an unregulated airsport.

um... actually the exemption from ANO was ended in early 2007 and was replaced by the classification of SPHG (self propelled hang glider) which includes 'delta' and 'para' sails when attached to a motorised harness and are foor launched.

This is a sub class of "Glider" under the ANO.

Curiously whilst exempt we definitely could not fly in cloud (see norman's table above and also I think we were required to also be "in sight of surface at all times").....now we can do what gliders can do.......??

Check out CAP393,section 6 IFR. rule 32 and then rule 33 and 34.

After reading that I do not think we are "unregulated". There are a number of regulations with which we must comply as SPHG. We were "de-regulated" whilst the exemption was in force and now we are very lightly regulated when we fly in uncontrolled airspace but we are very definitely "regulated". Also not wishing to be a smartarse but sometimes the words are quite important.

Edited by Guest
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is bloody confusing isn't it. Looks like Phil might have a point - and you with your comment about minimum instrument fit.

I thought I had a handle on it Francis, clearly it needs a bit more clarification for my tiny brain. Still, something to do this winter I suppose. Weird thing is, the CAA guy I talked to is under the same impression that I am regarding to the 'unregulated' state of the sport.

For me the issue is simple when viewed practically, I ain't going into cloud or even within close striving distance of the base in one of these things. Books don't do much to break your fall!

:D:D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The section on air-law in this forum states that you can fly in cloud (notwithstanding a lack of advisability).

However, this site;

http://www.bmaa.org/forums/attach.aspx/ ... Flying.pdf

states unequivocally that you may not.

Which is right, and can you quote references to support?

Cheers.

Just to be a little pedantic here the pdf you refer to above is a document prepared by a contributor to a forum on the BMAA website and so when you say "this site states uneqivocally that you may not....." it is not the BMAA site that states it but one person's interpretation of the ANO. (albeit a very well respected person).

From the content, which refers to "SPHG" I deduce this was authored after the change from the exemption to the SPHG definition. It may be that the author retains an understanding from the previous legislation that no longer applies?

In any event we should all really go directly to the legislation and the CAA's interpretation of it in the CAP393, rather than rely on a lay person's interpretation, whether on this site or any other.

VFR and IFR are set out clearly in the CAP393 in sections 5 and 6. IFR (instrument flight rules) must be adopted by a pilot when VMC (visual meteriological conditions) deteriorate to the point where IMC (instrument meterological conditions) apply.

Or to put it simply if you fly into a cloud you are now in IMC and must fly IFR.

The nub of this thread is "can a paramotor pilot fly IFR?" The answer is in the CAP393 and will depend on the class of airspace your cloud is in. If flying in class G (uncontrolled) IFR consists of 2 rules, rule 33 and rule 34. Can a paramotor pilot comply with these rules?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Weird thing is, the CAA guy I talked to is under the same impression that I am regarding to the 'unregulated' state of the sport.

For your CAA guy the minmal regulation that does apply to us compared to any other craft he has to deal with probably seems like "un"! but actually we, as pilots, must conform to a number of regulations and, as you say, they can be confusing. You have to read them all the way through to be sure you know what you are supposed to do. Hence the regular occurences of airspace infringements and airproxes by all sorts of sports and professional pilots. There are no keep left bollards or traffic lights up there!!!!

For me the issue is simple when viewed practically, I ain't going into cloud or even within close striving distance of the base in one of these things. Books don't do much to break your fall!

:D:D

There is no law to say "dont fly your paramotor in the lee of a spine back ridge on a windy day" but not many pilots would exercise their legal right to fly there.

Clouds are turbulent places.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for that Francis,

Yes, it is a minefield and we need to tread carefully I agree,

The plot thickens.

I will be talking to my man in CAA later today to verify and validate my line of thought. I will report back with my findings. This is going around in my head and I need to spit something out.

Below is another opinion, nothing more but I think we are going in a strange direction here.

Paramotors are unregistered, undefined flying machines within the meaning of the ANO (CAP393). We might like to call them gliders, but they clearly are no more gliders than is a 747 unless you remove the power driving them. The rules generated within the ANO are designed to apply to flying machines that comply with a rule base - at the moment paramotors don't seem to, they sit outside it.

ANO IFR Rules assume that the craft being flown in IMC complies with licencing, airworthiness and minimum equipment fits that together equip an aircraft for flight under IFR. Using the ANO Rules in isolation to make a case for flight in IMC with an unlicensed pilot, in an unregistered aircraft that has no defined instrument fit for VFR let alone IMC nor equipped with a certified and licensed radio is not an argument that I believe would convince the regulator.

The very idea of paramotors or paragliders for that matter cloud flying the open FIR would turn the collective Civil and Military ATC system's hair white as it a practice fraught with danger for both the para pilot and more importantly, other innocent airspace users for the reasons outlines above in other posts.

Due to the way paramotors are slotted into the system, I don't believe they lend themselves to measurement and comparison to the existing rules in their entirety. Clearly though, there are those Rules that clearly apply to flying machines of any sort in VMC outside controlled airspace - the low flying rules for instance. This association perhaps invites wider comparisons.

Edited by Guest
Link to comment
Share on other sites

For those of you thinking WOT?!?!?

This may help.

AGL Above ground Level

AIAA Area of Intense Aerial Activity

AMSL Above mean Sea Level

ANO Air navigation Order

ASR Altimeter setting Region

ATC Air traffic Control

ATZ Aerodrome Traffic Zone

CTA Control Area

CTR Control Zone

FIR Flight Information Region

FL Flight Level

HIRTA High Intensity Radio

Transmission Area

IFR Instrument Flight Rules

IMC Instrument Meteorological

conditions

MATZ Military Air traffic Zone

QFE Query Field Elevation

QNH Query Nautical Height

SRA Special Rules Area

SRZ Special Rules Zone

TMA Terminal manoeuvring Area

VFR Visual Flight Rules

VMC Visual meteorological Conditions

SW :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for that Francis,

Paramotors are unregistered, ....................

True. There is no requirement to register a paramotor with the CAA. If you are a BHPA pilot you are required to register your wing and motor combination(s) with the Association under their own self-regulatory code.

................undefined flying machines within the meaning of the ANO (CAP393).

We might like to call them gliders, ..........................- at the moment paramotors don't seem to (be)......

Not True!

'Glider' means:

(a) a non-power-driven heavier-than-air aircraft, deriving its lift in flight chiefly from

aerodynamic reactions on surfaces which remain fixed under given conditions of

flight;

(b) a self-sustaining glider; and

© a self-propelled hang-glider;

and a reference in this Order to a glider shall include a reference to a self-sustaining

glider and a self-propelled hang-glider;

Section 1 (ANO) Part 14 page 18 of CAP393

A paramotor is defined as a "Glider" under ANO and must comply with all the rules that apply to gliders. There is no debate about this .................it is the law.

There is also no debate about whether a paramotor may legaly fly in cloud. To fly in cloud the pilot has entered IMC and must fly IFR, thats the law..... Can a paramotor pilot comply with IFR?

In class G airspace IFR is confined to two rule, 33 and 34 as stated in rule 32!

We must read the rules and decide as "pilot in command" if we can comply with them.

This last statement applies to all the questions we ask each other on the forum.

"your honour I believed I was in the right, I read it on the forum" is no defense in law.

It also determines who is a "real pilot" (IMHO), not just in paramotoring but microlighting, GA, gliding and commercial pilots; we are all "Commanders" of our craft and must be (are legally obliged to be) "up to speed" with the myriad regulations that constrain their operation.

Edited by Guest
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting post there Francis. I will take it in the spirit I am sure it is meant.

Just had a very interesting chat with my CAA contact. This gentleman is very well placed to know the rules being Manager GA Flight Operations.

Gliders?

Firstly, the CAA decided to take the paramotor off exemption and into the ANO by classifying it as a glider exactly as you say Francis. The CAA realize that there is still confusion over the status of paramotors but are unable to make minor inclusions to the ANO owing to the legal status of the document. It is a pain and it takes ages - which is why the work around was to consider them as gliders. They are in the process of producing clarification for the industry.

I owe both yourself and Phil an apology there, I was running with what seemed sensible, not what was written in the absence of product from the research I did with the ANO. Having re-read my post I do come across as a tad didactic. To me a paramotor didn't seem like a Glider, particularly not a Hang Glider. They are devices built with aluminum poles and have fabric stretched across them.... aren't they?

Paramotor Status

They remain an unregulated machine.... in as much as there is no licensing or airworthiness requirements for them. They are regulated only in as much as they must comply with ANO rules of the air and now have a definition of sorts in the ANO.

IFR in Class 'G' airspace.

This one is a definite no-no, a paramotor cannot comply with IFRs. You may be able to comply with quadrantal rules, but as I offered, neither the pilot nor the aircraft are licensed or equipped for IFR flight. Both are required - it is forbidden by law. Furthermore there is also the 'endangerment' rule within the ANO which can be used to provide further grounds for prosecution should someone be dumb enough to try it. Ours are VFR, Day only flying machines.

General

The situation we are in here is rather unique, the rules for our operation are shrouded behind equivalence in the absence of correct descriptive definition. This won't always be the case as the sport is still very young - but have you ever tried as a comparative outsider to get definitive information regarding the legalities of this sport? The BHPA website has very little about paramotoring to read and nothing that I found indicates the state of any current legislation. They BMAA - they by their own admission are out of the game, at least for the moment.

So if a pilot can get no definitive information from the various relevant organisation by reference to their websites, nothing from printed reference material/manuals as it is out of date, and has to ring the CAA to track down intent and meaning - how is our determined, dedicated and enthusiastic aviator to meet the challenges of your final paragraph Francis?

I appreciate that I may appear to be an impertinent student newbie Francis, but please understand that my missives here are born of curiosity and a desire to contribute, not of hubris. If they seem that way, I have work to do zipping my trap shut.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting post there Francis. I will take it in the spirit I am sure it is meant.

Dear Norman, we are all trying to grapple with the issues and understand the legailities. I don'y claim any greater understanding merely by having been around paramotoring for a few years more. If my post seemed a little pedantic it is my way of expression and implies no irritation; your questions are prcisely put and pertinent to all of us and our understanding of these issues.

Just had a very interesting chat with my CAA contact. This gentleman is very well placed to know the rules being Manager GA Flight Operations.

Gliders?

Firstly, the CAA decided to take the paramotor off exemption and into the ANO by classifying it as a glider exactly as you say Francis. The CAA realize that there is still confusion over the status of paramotors but are unable to make minor inclusions to the ANO owing to the legal status of the document. It is a pain and it takes ages - which is why the work around was to consider them as gliders. They are in the process of producing clarification for the industry.

I see nothing inconsistent here. Self-sustaining gliders (those with enough of an angine to maintain height and climb ) are still within the "glider" classification. Our climb rate is even less than many of these craft. Both hang gliders and paragliders are wings that have had engines added to them for the purpose of self-sustaining their flight and gently climbing. The term Hang Glider refers to the pitch stability rendered by the pendulous weight "hanging" below the centre of lift. both hang gliders and paragliders have "pendulum" stability. The CAA have, in my view, quite sensibly defined them both within one form of words and classified them within an existing category of craft. A very neat solution and giving their operation a regulatory framework without any extra legislation.

Paramotor Status

They remain an unregulated machine.... in as much as there is no licensing or airworthiness requirements for them.

as are all gliders
They are regulated only in as much as they must comply with ANO rules of the air and now have a definition of sorts in the ANO.

the definition came about as a result of considerable consultation and representation by both the BMAA and the BHPA. The "industry" as far as it is represented lobbied hard for this outcome and is, I understand, well pleased with it.

IFR in Class 'G' airspace.

This one is a definite no-no, a paramotor cannot comply with IFRs. You may be able to comply with quadrantal rules, but as I offered, neither the pilot nor the aircraft are licensed or equipped for IFR flight. Both are required - it is forbidden by law. Furthermore there is also the 'endangerment' rule within the ANO which can be used to provide further grounds for prosecution should someone be dumb enough to try it. Ours are VFR, Day only flying machines.

the BGA are at considerable odds with your contact's analysis of this one! Glider pilots are trained by their instructors, I understand, to fly in cloud; it is an advanced rating and they are quite particular about it. There are a number of other European countries where cloud flying by gliders is permitted. As gliders we operate under the same rules. Microlights on the other hand are expressly forbidden to enter cloud being required to have the surface in sight at all times.

General

The situation we are in here is rather unique, the rules for our operation are shrouded behind equivalence in the absence of correct descriptive definition.

I find differently to you on this one Norman. The rules of our operation are quite clear to me. They are the same as for gliders which have been in operation since the beginning of (aviation) time. Wherever the ANO refers to gliders we include ourselves in that directive.

This won't always be the case as the sport is still very young - but have you ever tried as a comparative outsider to get definitive information regarding the legalities of this sport? The BHPA website has very little about paramotoring to read and nothing that I found indicates the state of any current legislation.

They BMAA - they by their own admission are out of the game, at least for the moment.

the BHPA appear to have suddenly "woken up" and have introduced a number of measures to bring self regulation of paramotoring members into line with its other activities. As with any association, it relies on members coming forward to volunteer to do the kind of work that would result in the sort of information you seek being available in a one stop shop.

So if a pilot can get no definitive information from the various relevant organisation by reference to their websites, nothing from printed reference material/manuals as it is out of date, and has to ring the CAA to track down intent and meaning - how is our determined, dedicated and enthusiastic aviator to meet the challenges of your final paragraph Francis?

in my own case I JFDI and rely on the proven maxim that forgiveness is much more easily obtained than permission.

I appreciate that I may appear to be an impertinent student newbie Francis, but please understand that my missives here are born of curiosity and a desire to contribute, not of hubris. If they seem that way, I have work to do zipping my trap shut.

Not at all and I did not imagine anything else dear friend. I have avoided giving a direct yes or no to the original question because , like you, I still do not have the definitive answer. I do not think we will get one until the written law is interpreted in a court and precedent is set. There has never been a prosecution of a paramotorist for flying in cloud. Only when there is will the law be clarified by the judge who directs the jury that convicts. That is the way our legal system works I think. If it is me in the dock I will cite the definition of "glider" and point to the generally accepted interpretation of the BGA community that gliders may fly in cloud, will attempt to show that I was equiped to observe the quadrant rule with my magetic compass and barometric altimeter but that I was exempt from that rule since I was circling in lft to the top of the cloud at the time when the collission occurred, your honour, and I deeply regret the loss of life.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

:lol: I think I can see where you are coming from now Francis though it is clear we see things a little differently though I bow to your experience and knowledge base in this arena and find the wooden swordplay stimulating. That's what makes the world go 'round in my book. It refreshes the corners of the brain that need a hose through now and again.

I doubt that there is anyone who has read through this thread that doesn't understand the basis on which paramotors are flown in the UK, or less than clear or the nature of VMC and the relationship we have with the clouds. That in itself emphasizes the value of a rich and lively forum (no pun intended Frances).

I am sure we can agree that gliders and paramotors are very different flying machines and the CAA has taken the action it has for practical administrative reasons. The spaces created around the marriage of paramotor and glider within the ANO has created the odd inconsistency, even loophole. Loopholes that might be used to hang oneself were they to be tested for their weight.

Gliders in the conventional sense (sailplanes) have instrument fits that go from a standard 'T' with no 'Horizon' but a 'Turn & Slip' through to a full ADI with flight director should your pocket stretch to it. That makes the final glide almost an instrument flying exercise if you tack on a GPS. It would be a real gas developing the same for a PM and creating a training regime to cover recovery from unusual attitudes might present problems for the tandem machines?

As for the BGA and their relationship with the CAA, I think it is one that has matured over time and they are both content with it. I think we tread thin ice if we try to ride the back of it simply because we have been classified as 'gliders'.

Without wishing to press the point too hard or even make a grasp for the last word, from the conversations I have had, I'm content with the line that cloud flying in a paramotor is and will be regarded as illegal if the courts ever became engaged during an aftermath. Couple that with the dubious practice of sculling in and out of cloudbase and you are asking to have your lips pressed against someones canopy and riser lines wrapped around their tail. :lol:

I guess we pays our money and takes our chances!

ADI = attitood director Indicator (Am) - artificial horizon (Limey)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The whole point and purpose of cloud flying for gliders is so that they can maximise their climb before going on a glide. Paragliders on xc can do the same but the benefit is limited as the canopy gets more water logged. Not many PG ers I know do more than let it get milky before putting on bar and heading for the next lift. I fly xc with a pda running XCSoar which is a GPS based flight computer that calculates glide based on history of lift that flight and rate of climb, wind speed and direction etc and gives you an indication of the height you need to get to the next lift at a sensible altitude. If this is looking marginal you might climb a n extra bit before heading off on your magnetic compass bearing until VMC is restored. I suspect it is the same process in much gliding; I just need an extra hundred and I'll make it to the next cloud!

None of this applies to paramotoring unless you are simply using the motor to get aloft and then are thermalling without it. HOWEVER one thing you often want to do is stay at base and not climb into the cloud but drift with it and this is where you would use your "rapid descent" technique. B line stall or asymetric or "big ears". If the lift under the cloud is very strong (>8m/s) even B-lining will result in climbing. In this case you need to fly to the edge of the cloud where the sink can be found. Dont be tempted to use speed bar to get there as you will not want a lowered angle of atatck when you transit into sink from lift!

SO........... If you ever think you might fly anywhere near a cloud or are concerned about getting hoovered into one, fly with a magnetic compass; check the direction you want to fly in before you dissapear (cross wind is the fastest way to the edge of the cloud) and fly the needle until you emerge; seems like hours, lasts seconds or minutes.

I always think to myself hmmmm... Gliders are allowed to fly in clouds and many do and that is the VERY BEST reason to stay out of them!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Suggestion for offer of the week.....webbing mounted magnetic compass????

PS to Norman. I dont think we need orientation instruments as our pendulum stability keeps us everted. We can feel accelerations much more too as we swing back through the bottom and cannot fly a turn without keeping one hand lower than the other. The instruments we must have are the compass and the altimeter. We need to know which way to fly to get to the edge and how much height we are gaining within the cloud to decide whether to b-line or fly to the edge and out the side.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share



  • Upcoming Events

    No upcoming events found
×
×
  • Create New...