ppg Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 hello folks, i wondering (parajet UK won’t reply to my email) do anybody suffering from this poor design on v3, zenit or maverick? i just had tight spiral and got bends on arms wtf- do parajet completely missed beat? me 87kg, half tank of fuel and extraordinary heavy V3 & thor 250 es combo.... do i need replace arms after every single wingovers finished with spiral because if not have fun- why i need this extremely heavy and week mashine: to do level fly with big wing and 1/4 of engine performance ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbertflyer Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 The machine is not rated for acrobatics (you may not be either). We've lost quite a few friends as a result of 'spontaneous' acro. Please don't do it. Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ppg Posted February 20, 2019 Author Share Posted February 20, 2019 1 hour ago, norbertflyer said: The machine is not rated for acrobatics (you may not be either). We've lost quite a few friends as a result of 'spontaneous' acro. Please don't do it. Richard i bought V3 t250 after V2, because expecting to be strong ( V2 no leave any doubts ) and hooked on snake xx 20 for a reason.... different guys- different flying styles...... few G’s gained in wingovers & finished with spiral not acro..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 The machine looks pretty and is in many ways one of the most robust on the market. I had it as my first machine, so that it could take the knocks if I hit the floor. I have seen a number of others bump the floor and the cage took the energy out of their incident, leaving them unharmed. The cage does take the knocks but bends and is then difficult to take apart and build up again. However, it can be bent back into shape! The swing arms are one of the 'pretty' selling points of the Parajet. They are not rated for pulling g's and as you have found out, they are not strong laterally and buckle as yours have done. The AC Nitro I have now has stronger swing arms as an option for doing acro. I can't remember if Parajet offer stronger ones. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin (Simon W) Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 One of the older Acro guys will know for sure but I am 'fairly' sure that Parajet offered acro arms or something of a mod for those people?? It's not cool to see, but I remain a tad confused about the energy that must have been involved in this. There are plenty of people hoofing them about and pulling high G ratings! (try and find a picture of Tom Mc Bride flying his V1 and now Mav anything other than up side down lol) I would like to see a video of the manoeuvre to be able to better assess. SW 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Morgan Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 PPG your not alone with regards to bending the CNC arms.. Deep spirals but mainly sats will bend the arms. I bent my Old zenith arms at a Slalom comp.. Normally Parajet will send you out new set of arms but this doesn't solve the issue.. DO NOT just bend the arms back into shape!! This happens on V3's zenith's and even the mav as they all have virtually the same arms, Obviously these are not the only Paramotors to suffer from this as most arms are not really designed to take such a high lateral load or shock load.. I would post up some photos of friends bent arms on there machines but FlickR have now decided to limit photo uploads! The only thing i would suggest is speak with some experienced Acro guys and ask them what machine they use or would recommend.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Mark, I know nothing about aerobatic stuff with ppg, but from looking at videos and seeing the bent CNC arms, I don't think the loads are lateral. It looks to me like high g in a downward direction (relative to the wing) so the weight of the pilot in the seat is pulling down on the arms at the front, the motor/frame is pulling down on the arms at the back end and the wing is pulling up in the middle. The reason the parajet arms look like they have been bent sideways is because they have buckled under the load. They are just not stiff enough to prevent the metal bending sideways when under load and the arms find it 'easier' to buckle sideways rather than try and bend in a straight plane. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Morgan Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 A sat will push the load to the side it might not be 100% horizontal (lateral) no but its still off to the side.. A deep spiral will have a higher G loading with a sat having a lower G load but off to the side Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 OK. I said I don't know the aerobatic moves, but I do know how the wing is attached. There can only be lateral loading of the arms if the risers are pulling to the side. I can't see how this is possible, other than a tiny amount as all the lines on the wings make them self centering. Say you are sat in the seat and the left riser is somehow now going off to the left at a angle, instead of straight up (all relative to the wing position). Now the right riser must also be at the same angle. Now the wing would no longer be an arc shape. It would have to be pulled into 2 smaller arcs, with an inconsistency in the middle where the 2 arcs meet. I have watched sats etc and never seen the wing doing weird none single arc shapes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Morgan Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 There is alot of weight transfer in some of the moves loading one side move than the other for a short time and In a Sat you're not really sitting in the centre. One side will be loaded more than the other and for this reason you will be more susceptible to a collapse doing a sat than you are in a spiral, same for Big wing overs a badly timed wing over is normally followed by the high side wing tip collapse tuck.. The loading is not allways equal thus causing some Machine to bend the arms Watch this old video that will explain a lot better than i can.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Cheers Mark, that was really helpful. Always learning! I am definitely never going to do those!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Morgan Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, AndyB said: Cheers Mark, that was really helpful. Always learning! I am definitely never going to do those!!!! Your welcome.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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