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Ozone Sirocco top speed


adamjedgar
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Hi guys,

i feel very sheepish about even mentioning this, i am going against everything i have ever said about Ozone ppg wings and have been made an exceptionally good offer for the purchase of a 22m Sirocco with only 5 flights on it (one of which was mine on its very first ever flight after delivery to importer from the factory).

 

I first flew the wing about 2 years ago...(Sirocco, not the Sirocco2) I did not speed test it when i first flew the wing. Whilst it has a couple of shortcomings that i found frustrating at the time, i remember it being fantastically easy to launch and felt right at home on it from the second i turned to take off. At the price it is being offered to me i simply cannot pass it up.

 

Has anyone got any speed information on this wing? (middle weight range)

 

1. minimum flying speed

2. trim speed

3. trimmers out speed

4. top speed

 

much appreciated

Adam

 

 

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good point christian, i wondered about the series 2 in the sirocco model...i note that in the specifications Ozone have lowered the aspect ratio slightly. I would have thought that doing such a thing would also reduce efficiency?

 

Also, they say the newer sirocco 2 is a little faster, i wonder what they did to achieve that? Was it by increasing the speedbar range (which might explain why they lowered aspect ratio slightly). Christian what comparison in speed between the Sirocco and Speedstar2 have you experienced?

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Adam, I am not sure that I can give you a useful comparison because I dropped from a 24m2 Sirocco to to a 22m2 Speedster, besides there are a thousand and one other variables.  I normally fly with a friend and we got our Siroccos together and he's still on his.  I notice that I catch up much quicker than I used to, but let's be realistic, it's still like a race between two Reliant Robins.  I think that the Speedster 2 has a broader speed range and I can fly really slow.

For me the most important feature of a wing is not it's speed, but it's launch characteristics.  It doesn't matter if a wing is fast if launching in nil wind is difficult.  I found the Sirocco really easy to launch in nil wind.  From my own experience, I wouldn't hesitate to buy another Sirocco.

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For me launch has been largely an irrelevant consideration because very early on in my ppg experience i was taught to power launch (use a little thrust from get go to bring up wing). This was because im skinny and forward launching with 30kg on my back was just too difficult. 

 

So my main considerations are efficiency @ cruise speed and slow landing speed (skinny legs so i dont like high landing speed with 30kg on my back).

 

My main reason for asking about top speed is just as a matter of interest.

I am picking up the 22mtr Sirrocco in the next week or so...i will try to do a couple of write ups on my experience with it as i progress. I am a little concerned though because, even though i was the first to fly it new out of the box 2 years ago, i suspect this particular wing may have bitten its current owner and consequently it has only been flown half a dozen times since unboxing almost 2 years ago.

 

Wings that bite are to be respected i expect?

 

Having said that i am actually quietly excited about taking possession of it.

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  • 2 months later...

I have had a terrible time forward launching the Sirocco in last 2 flights...im really struggling to come to terms with the way the wing comes up.

The dudek likes to come up straight and is easy to get overhead. The sirocco takes every opportunity to throw a wing tip over. I think its lighter weight may be the reason for this? 

I have to say it mains brakes configuration is terrible and i dont like it at all but i guess i need to setup 2d steering and learn how to use it (weird that the activate tst one must push upwards instead of down)

I also find the Sirocco nervous in the air...not feeling as if a collapse is imminent, just that wing reacts quite noticably to the slightest air turbulence,and in particular engine torque...the dudek is far more comfortable to ride underneath and a lot more resilient to the influence of torque. There is only 1.5 sq m difference in wing size (dudek 25.5m and sirocco 24m) so i dont see this as being the main factor.

I dont think i will ever buy another lightweight ppg wing again...huge mistake for me.

 

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The Speedster2 and sirocco 2 will be the same speeds... 

 

My Original Speedster is the same speeds as my old one give or take 1kph  73-75kg pilot flying all up @ 115kg on a 24m my speeds are... Slow 38 TO43 Fast52 Fast with Bar 60  you will not really notice any difference in speeds IMO between the S2 and the Sir2 but launch and agility will be better with the Sir2   

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The reason I asked whether Dudek was a B wing is that you have gone 3.5 m smaller (so nearly 2 wing sizes smaller) and gone for the more 'nippy' intermediate to advanced Sirocco. I am quite interested as I am looking at what my next wing might be. I have Roadster 2. 

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38 minutes ago, AndyB said:

The reason I asked whether Dudek was a B wing is that you have gone 3.5 m smaller (so nearly 2 wing sizes smaller) and gone for the more 'nippy' intermediate to advanced Sirocco. I am quite interested as I am looking at what my next wing might be. I have Roadster 2. 

After picking up wing and reading label the SIrocco is 24m flat...approx 21.5 projected i think. 

Does anyone who flies wings with neutral trimmer settings like that of the speedster and sirocco ever close them fully for takeoff and or landing?

I have only fully closed trimmers when free flying the sirocco....tried them closed on a ppg launch recently but felt like wing wanted to go parachutal...i gave up on that launch pretty quickly. I did have tip steering toggles in hand too i think...another launch fail. A lot of experimenting to do with this wing.

Edited by adamjedgar
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I fly most of the time with trims fully closed. Take-off is much easier with them an nuetral - which is what Ozone recommend. I have knackered back and struggle to forward launch in low wind with trims in. Just can't get wing up. With nuetral  trims I can launch.

However, all became much easier with the learning of power launch. I can nail the forward pretty much every time now. Even Tuesday this week, forward launch in 10 to 15 mph wind. Doddle. 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...
On 4/7/2018 at 21:06, Bobbyf said:

I fly a 22 Speedster2 and as above, always take off on neutral trim. It handles better and seems to have more ‘feel’ which I think is important on take off. I rarely fly on slow trim. 

Do you notice any difference to handling between neutral trim and fast when general flying around?

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Ozone also recommend taking off on trims part out (white line), not neutral. The wing inflation is better/easier at this setting. :)

Take off...white line

Landing....neutral  in low wind and white line in strong wind 

The further out the trims are the less effective the brakes feel...which is why tip steering is there.

Trims fully out makes wing more stable in rough air. I often fly over the Cleveland hills (very steep edge) which have the prevailing wind going up of the steep side, the producing some really rough rotor over the top!

 

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Andy using fast trim setting for landing is a skill that should be learned and used all the time!!  

 

Strong winds coming down on slow will be a near vertical decent with no forward ground speed.. Using slow trim settings in Zero wind is ok but full fast is 100% better as you have more flare Authority and more feel, Stiffer brakes yes but more feel in the wing... if the wind switches while on finals using full fast make no difference as you have extra speed and more pressure in the wing giving you a stronger flare at the end.on slow trim you will have nothing left and will have a heavy landing...  When i was a new pilot i didn't believe it when i was told to change my landing 'style' from slow to full fast as i was always going down on to my knees but when you have multiple times world champion michel Carnet telling you to try something you can't say no your wrong... 

My advise to anyone who i struggling with there landings is to slowly progress with a higher trim out speed for landings. Zero wind out an extra inch than normal add 5-10kph wind add another inch , Get used to the ground rush and extra speed then move up again.. you wont go back!!! I even land full fast on my 15 & 16m's 

 

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Nope. I do perfect landing every time (well I did get a knee in very strong wind last week!). As I said above, if it is windy then trims have to go out a little. Below is me landing in wind that was taking me backwards with trims in just last week (I clocked my highest max speed that day of 78 Km/hr, 52 mph). Many people say what you have said, but you are quite wrong. With trims out the landing is much faster and you have more potential to get it wrong. Yes, the brakes have more feel - because you are going faster. I was taught to flare by looking at where you are in the air,  not the feel of the brakes. This gives perfect flare every time. There is no need to "feel" the brakes as your flare is determined by your height from the ground. In the video below I adjusted trims out until I was just moving forward slowly. 

Flaring starts when my feet are just 3 feet from the ground and the brakes are pulled such as to maintain me 3 feet from the ground, until speed has dropped - then just step onto the floor! The amount of brake is determined by maintaining that 3 feet and not by feel. The amount of brake (and hence feel) is different every time depending on the wind strength. The example below used virtually no brakes, just the lightest of touches.

 

 

 

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If i'm wrong so is Multiple Uk and world champion Michel carnet, Alex Mateos and the rest of us International Comp pilots who all land the same way..  

Looking at the video there is nothing wrong with your landing tech... But please do go and try and land on a faster trim setting..   it is so much fun!! bring that 3ft down to 1 ft then foot drag landing.. add full fast to the mix and I will place money you won't go back especially in the hot summer with variable winds. I've lost count of the amount of time i've seen pilots fall due to slight down wind landings when the ones who come in full fast just slide in and walk away...   

when you start flying wings with an Ave Max speed of 78kph  you might be thankful you learned to land on full fast on your slower wings. ;-)   Anyway each to there own... 

 

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ps ...I also do swoop landings and trims out....just pointing out that it is actually easier to land on slower trims and there is less potential for it going wrong.....as you are going slower. Fast landings are fun! I fly in Spain a lot and in the 44 degrees it got to last year.......the landings are very fast.

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