EOS 150

[doubledeez]

The coils I have ohm the same.  Both the original that came on the 2018 and the new for 2019 version that they sent:

 

Coil- 1.8 ohms grounding wire to leg.

8.75kohms grounding wire to spark wire.  or "Secondary"

 

I could not find any markings on the newer coil to distinguish it from the older one.  All stampings and markings were exactly the same.  The only difference was the new coil had a shorter foot on one leg.

 

As far as power fade.  I experience that also.  It has been consistent on several different carb settings so it leads me to believe it is normal and to be expected due to heat build up over time.

My findings on fade:

With my old carb settings I was getting peak 8500rpms for initial takeoff and climb then she would settle into 8300-8200 range after 45secs-1 minute of full throttle.  I was seeing temps up to 417F before going to 6400 cruise rpm, allowing temps to fall back to 360-380F range and then hitting power again and she would usually peak at 8400 and then fall off to 8200 for another 30secs of power.  If I'd idle down for 1 full minute temps would drop to 250-300F range and a true 8500rpm was then available again for another climb.

I have since abandoned the factory recommendations on carb settings and I'm experimenting with "jetski tuning knowledge"  And I'm now currently making a true 9000rpm on the ground on runup.  8800-8900-8700 on climbout which then settles into 8600 after a full 1 minute of climb.  Peak temps are only slightly higher than previous recordings at lower rpm.  I'm running a richer than recommended lo setting (1.5 out) for more fuel cooling when I come off of throttle to idle for 1 minute descends that put my cool down temps around 240F.  On a 30 second climb at 8800-8700 rpm I only see 385F.  Motor is running cool and strong.  It's finally dialed in.  But I had to fiddle with the Hi screw quite a bit to get these results.

 

My guess is the fade you are seeing is normal.  Not a coil issue.  The cap also popped off of my spark wire.  It's just a screw on plug cap that stabs a center spike into the plug wire.  Stab that thing back in there and ziptie the piss out of the end cap to hold it tightly in place.  Why they didn't put a tyewrap there to begin with is beyond me.  But they left a lot for the owner to handle up on it seems. Just be careful removing the plug cap when you pull the plug to check color, (which is what I do after each and every flight).  Use two hands, wait for the head temp to get below 150F so you don't burn yourself then with the meaty part of your right hand on the fins push the cap with your index and thumb while pulling with the other hand...and don't yank, make your right hand do most of the work pushing, not pulling with the left.

 

As far as using a coil from another make and model....well, I wouldn't try it.  But if it works out for you be sure to post it here.  According to the spec docs on the eos website they "made" changes to the new coil that fixed problems with timing at higher rpms on the old coil that was causing heat problems......All I know is the old coil and new one look identical apart from the foot mod.  How that changes spark timing?  who knows.  I can tell you what really fixed the heat issues.....losing that heat trap shroud.....yeah, that didn't help at all.

 

DD

 

 

 

[xNateX]

I'd been following this thread closely, hoping the eos150 would be my next motor.

 

Just placed an order for the moster.

 

Temps of 417, plus high fuel consumption... I'll pass. But I appreciate all the information and knowledge gained that has been posted. Thank you all.

[cas_whitmore]

Definitely interesting info ‘ wb37 on my 100 booster has been a pig to dial in , it’s there now ‘ but I much prefer wg8 type .

cas .

[KarmaCommando]

doubledeez, thank you for all the info man! I am glad I found you, because it seems not many other people have done any serious tuning on it. Thanks for your ohm readings, too. My screw actually completely broke off on the plug cap, so I had to splice in a new segment of wire with a new cap- I was very worried this would screw up the resistance, but it looks like it didn't. 

As for the power fade, this is like a very dramatic power fade- it's from 9000rpm peak (give or take) to 5 or 6k after only 30 seconds- that's a lot. When I flew last, I experimented with getting on and off the gas- it would go back to full power, but on a warm motor it only lasted 4 seconds or so. Keep in mind temps were only about 370. 

 

i did talk to EOS, and they verify that the coil used on the base 150 is the exact same as the moster's coil. They also wanted me to pull the exhaust and look at the piston... I don't know my production number off the top of my head, but this problem doesn't sound like piston rings sticking. 

 

I have a brand new carb on order. I'll throw that in, and hopefully it fixes it. If not, i'll have a spare. And then that will confirm it's ignition related.... 

Edited April 30, 2019 by KarmaCommando

[KarmaCommando]

9 hours ago, xNateX said:

I'd been following this thread closely, hoping the eos150 would be my next motor.

 

Just placed an order for the moster.

 

Temps of 417, plus high fuel consumption... I'll pass. But I appreciate all the information and knowledge gained that has been posted. Thank you all.

I don't blame you. I couldn't exactly recommend the 150 either, at least not until they iron out the kinks. Honestly right now the number of starter ropes I have replaced and the number of flights I even have on it are way too close... 

[doubledeez]

I'm still rocking the old rope starter.  The flash spring doesn't work.  And the recoil spring is still holding.(the original that broke at 20hrs where I had to bend another "hook" to grab the center spindle.)  I've had to shorten the rope to pick up the slack but it's still enough to get a full pull when on my back.  My most consistent starts are made by following these simple steps:

1. (cold start only)always visually prime carb with only 3 drops of fuel.  "pull the air box and look down the throat"

2. pull the motor over slowly, short strokes a couple of times to get the mixture past the reeds and around the crank.

3. on the last slow pull when you feel the compression stroke go just over top dead center, return the pull rope handle fully against the pulley and prepare for ignition.

4.say a prayer

5.Pull swift and hard and if you are dialed in she should start and run.

6. She will probably just pop or even kick back.

7. Pull through slowly a couple more times then return handle to pulley, and this time crack throttle slighly.  I like to hold my pollini throttle in my right hand and will alter grip position just for this starting tactic.  You can place your bird finger under the throttle lever and squeeze the lever against it with the ring finger, that should give you just the right amount of cracked throttle opening. Pull hard and she'll start and run.  Works every time for me.

[doubledeez]

Karma, Addressing your power fade,

That sounds catastrophic.  If you were getting 9000 from that motor without slowly building into it by verifying plug color over time and working your way up from the 8200 range, I'd say you were probably too lean.  I don't allow my motor to pull 9000 rpm climbs.  The motor manufacturer stated to us the range for this motor is 8500-9000 peak rpms.  I only ever see 9000 on a cold ground runup.  And if I see more, I verify belt tension then go for that hi screw and open it a degree or two.  9000 is a no go in flight for me.  If you are seeing that, well I can't say for sure because I didn't do the testing there.... But I'd check the cylinder walls with a bore scope for signs of scoring and ring drag.  Mostly exhaust side.   I do know one thing, if you are running the same oil "Castrol Power RS TTS 2T" you will get away with a lot more abuse than what we used to back in the day.  I couldn't believe what I saw when I took the head off of my motor when I had the reed let go and hang up on the exhaust port.  My motor was still running, and making power.....although low.  With a completely fragged out top end.  All I can say is the oil must have played a part.  Shit must be made from magic beans or something.

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZR1bF6ch4xz5QUxxoR0NnHspUUbTkEtw/view?usp=sharing

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Kf7OR9cZB7kaMiy-2LmfJuOY8FNgouWc/view?usp=sharing

 

 

 

[KarmaCommando]

There's also the possibility that my shitty tach with crimped-together sensor wires was giving me a poor reading. The motor doesn't at all behave as though something catastrophic had happened. Still, though, i'm going to take a look with my bore scope tonight. Been busy with work 

 

Re: starting, most of the time even when it's cold out I just go out and pull the handle and she starts right up. No finnicky stuff at all- sometimes i'll blow into the vent line to prime it a bit if it's been sitting. 

Edited May 1, 2019 by KarmaCommando

[steve2339]

This thread has not been helpful at all! lol I think about the weight and fuel burn of the M185 and immediately look at the my'2019 EOS 150 webpage.  Then I read this thread and pause again, lol! My instructor say oh the Top 80 or Atom 80 will be just fine at 5500' density altitude but I just cant buy it. Someone please hit me with a hammer! lol So I think about the M185 again........argh analysis paralysis!

 

Edited May 9, 2019 by steve2339

[doubledeez]

I flew matt's new, out the box atom 80.  It's a tough lil motor.  But not ideal for me.  I was grounded waiting for parts to come in for the 150 so Matt was letting me borrow gear until the stuff arrived.  I flew it on my same wing, a 26 mojo pwr.  I flew it on an evening with nil wind, dead calm, fwd launch.  I will never ever try that again.  I ran my ass off.  I worked harder than any attempt ever to get off of the ground.  I can only imagine someone who had never flown before trying to run it out......next to impossible.  I got off the ground and flew around a bit but was so unimpressed by the power I didn't really enjoy the flight.  Landed and told matt thanks but no thanks, I'll stick to the 150cc and up.  I'm pretty athletic, 180 pounds...do all manner of water sports, that flight kicked my ass.

[parashootist]

Got my first flight in 2 days ago and my second flight this morning. I kept both flights around 30 minutes as per the recommended break in procedure. So far it seems to run great. Peak RPM seemed to be around 8600 but the plug was pretty black/wet so I'm sure I can lean it out a bit. I'm going to leave it rich for the break in at least. Temp was about 405 during my climb out and then settled around 355 while putting around. 

[noddyc]

Need some advice :

I have one of the first generation eos motors 

Who keeps eos150 parts in stock  , need a new pullstart, mine stop working (catching) over the weekend. 

 

 

[noddyc]

I have one of the first generation eos150's.

My temp running is between 228-234 degrees under the spark plug,  545 degrees exhaust temperature. 

I have to be carefully on the throttle or my cylinder head climb to over 250 degrees very easy  while my egt stays fairly stable. 

Spark plug is light black

I use around 6 liter an hour trims out. (roadsters 26)

 

[Scott Harcourt]

52 minutes ago, noddyc said:

Need some advice :

I have one of the first generation eos motors 

Who keeps eos150 parts in stock  , need a new pullstart, mine stop working (catching) over the weekend. 

 

 

Hi mate.

Robert Ferrero is a main dealer for EOS, a sound guy. 

https://wasppg.com/

 

[noddyc]

20 hours ago, Scott Harcourt said:

Hi mate.

Robert Ferrero is a main dealer for EOS, a sound guy. 

https://wasppg.com/

 

Thank Scott 

Spoke to Robert

[doubledeez]

On 23/06/2019 at 10:06, noddyc said:

I have one of the first generation eos150's.

My temp running is between 228-234 degrees under the spark plug,  545 degrees exhaust temperature. 

I have to be carefully on the throttle or my cylinder head climb to over 250 degrees very easy  while my egt stays fairly stable. 

Spark plug is light black

I use around 6 liter an hour trims out. (roadsters 26)

 

Hello noddyc, can I ask where your are sampling your exhaust gas temp from?  How far down the pipe?  is your sensor in the exhaust stream or is it measuring the outside of the pipe surface temps?  Just wondering.  Kicking around the idea of installing an O2 sensor and I need specs of where the pipe is hot and where it is not.  It's gonna be an old denso one wire sensor, the el cheapo brand for 11 bucks (found on older original mazda b2200 pickup trucks).  Just bought a new one for testing off of amazon.....I used to have a 93' model of said pickup that went into open loop around 70k miles when the o2 sensor gave it up.  Took a while for me to figure out what the heck was going on. funny story.  Truck was running like crap, wouldn't produce enough power to pass a semi on I10 while pulling a jetski trailer....was actually falling back in the fast lane.....people were blowing the horn at me and getting pissed.  I couldn't do anything....my truck just wouldn't go.  That was a vacation trip to FL....got back home after the vacation and was so miffed at the truck as it would not go over 45mph by this point...a week later......put it in 1st gear and proceeded to burn the motor to the floor doing donuts in moms front yard.....then POW!!!!  Something blew up under the hood, I could here it sounded like a french horn whoopie cushion under the hood.  THere were some rubber exhaust recirculation hoses, 3 of them, that feed exhaust back into the intake cleaner......one blew up from.....TOO MUCH BACKPRESSURE......ah, lets look for a clogged exhaust.....sure enough...nothing coming from the tail pipe with the engine at idle.  firgured I'd drop the cataletic, when I did the face of it looked like molten lava.  Like that thing is supposed to be porous....it was not......it was a solid block of melted shit in there.  started reading up on the net about it and that's when I learned all I ever wanted to know about o2 sensors, how they work, what happens when they go bad, and what not.  So my truck had been running quite a while with a bad sensor that sent the computer into dump fuel mode which cooked the cataletic and caused it to melt down like chernobyl.  So hollowed out cat, and new o2 sensor later and truck was back to running like a champ....don't know how....but that truck was bullet proof....tried several times to kill it.....it would not die.  If you ever find one keep it, that lil motor is a battle tank. 

N'neeway, back to the O2, I've perfected the lean out on the fly mixture adjustment system (servo controlled) on the ole' 150 and now I'm just looking for a way to confirm on the fly that my settings are sound along with the rpm readings.  Went up to 5k the other day, highest alt on record for me, had to lean her out about a 16th of a turn for every 1000 ft on the hi set to keep her pulling about 87-8600 rpms.  this is a narrow band o2 sensor that reads dc out of 0.1-0.9vdc with ideal mixture rates at 0.45vdc. 

.9 is rich and 0.1 is lean.  So with a mini volt meter...on the sensor readout leg you should be able to tell by voltage when a good mix is reached......in theory.

 

thoughts??

On 23/06/2019 at 10:06, noddyc said:

 

 

[noddyc]

This is where I got it fitted on my eos. 

I have a Polini  thor 200 with an o2  sensor bung and it was fitted at he bend around 200-250mm from the engine, I fitted an temp sensor and it work very well there. 

[doubledeez]

nice, very nice.  thanks!  how well did the o2 sens work out for ya on the thor 200? 

[noddyc]

I have not seen the O2 work on the 200 but suspect they put it there to get out of the flame path. 

When I got it I was told that they had only 1 hotspot after tuning it. It was running grey on the spark plug. 

I fitted a FLY HENRY  unit, egt sensor in the bung and it gave me the exact same  spot,  it is very sensitive, you can actually see the exact start of the leaning out and as you add throttle you can see where it stops. 

 

 

 

 

[doubledeez]

3 hours ago, noddyc said:

I have not seen the O2 work on the 200 but suspect they put it there to get out of the flame path. 

When I got it I was told that they had only 1 hotspot after tuning it. It was running grey on the spark plug. 

I fitted a FLY HENRY  unit, egt sensor in the bung and it gave me the exact same  spot,  it is very sensitive, you can actually see the exact start of the leaning out and as you add throttle you can see where it stops. 

 

 

 

 

Cool beans!  I'm looking at the EGT sensor on the Fly Henry web page.  Do you know, by chance, the ohmic values of that sensor?  I have a chinese meter that does cht, hourmeter, rpm.....it came with a temp probe for the head that reads in the higher resistance band and will not work with thermocouples that ohm in the 0-5 ohms range like my fluke meter probe and the probe (k type) I bought from here: http://thesensorconnection.com/cht-sensors/cht-sensors/cht-cylinder-head-temperature-12-and-14-mm

 

 

[doubledeez]

I'd like to keep using the chinese meter I have and just toggle the temp input between the CHT or EGT...with the press of a momentary switch.  Seems like EGT is probably a better way to go than o2 sensor anyway.....   maybe??

[noddyc]

15 hours ago, doubledeez said:

Cool beans!  I'm looking at the EGT sensor on the Fly Henry web page.  Do you know, by chance, the ohmic values of that sensor?  I have a chinese meter that does cht, hourmeter, rpm.....it came with a temp probe for the head that reads in the higher resistance band and will not work with thermocouples that ohm in the 0-5 ohms range like my fluke meter probe and the probe (k type) I bought from here: http://thesensorconnection.com/cht-sensors/cht-sensors/cht-cylinder-head-temperature-12-and-14-mm

 

 

I have no idea what the resistance is, will see if I can get hold of a meter to check it. 

[doubledeez]

that would be cool.  thanks!

[admin (Simon W)]

On 01/12/2018 at 18:33, cas_whitmore said:

Agreed ‘ petals work hard enough as it is without having s/s backer resonating on top of them 

Cas.

Most of the Paramotors I have ever looked inside have the SS 'stopper' for want of a better word... 

SW

[doubledeez]

39 minutes ago, admin (Simon W) said:

Most of the Paramotors I have ever looked inside have the SS 'stopper' for want of a better word... 

SW

Just to clarify, since no one has a good word for what we are talking about in the earlier posts.....all reed cages have "stoppers."  I am advocating for the removal of the SS "stiffeners" which rest on the reed petals themselves or you may end up with regrets.