EOS 150

[doubledeez]

Another update:

 

We are getting new piston/jug upgrade kit to modify this engine up to a 2019 version ICI motor.  Not sure what changed about the coil but they are sending us a new one as well to install included in the kit.  I've asked for more details on the coil but if anyone knows please chime in.  I'm guessing it may incorporate a Capacitor Discharge type ignition like on my jetskis. 

No word on the reeds yet either. 

Here's a link to the mod....

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1I-hVVxdXqFyWwbJa3nU7L0cirTNZUenH/view?usp=sharing

[Scott Harcourt]

I know what changes were made to the coil and why. 

‘The old system was sometimes getting an inter TDC spark/s causing loss of power and heat problems on a small number of motors.

‘A simple part design change fixed it. 

[doubledeez]

Ok, thanks for chiming in,  do ya know what change was made?

 

I'm on (EOS Engine) FB page and in a PM they said it was an "Ignition timing curve difference "

 

That sounds more elaborate than a simple timing adjustment by a slotted advancement on a stator plate....That sounds like a New part to me.

 

Just wondering.

 

DD

[doubledeez]

I know this lil motor was off the charts on heat.  I recorded a peak of 465F on the first flight where I had a temp sensor (chinese special)probe under the spark plug. It lasted that one and only flight because it got cooked.  I then manufactured another temp sensor out of some Alumel/Chromel pins (I work in aviation) that I acquired....That held up for 3 flights before it cooked them too.....I saw 509F b4 it cooked that homemade sensor. 

Now we ran this motor quite rich mind you.  So the heat was In my opinion, was mostly due to build up under that stupid cooling/overheating shroud....that you can clearly see they decided to do away with.

I was on my third thermocouple adaptation when the motor quit.  I had purchased a spare thermocouple from Fluke to use in my Model 16 Fluke Multimeter that I fastened to the risers.  I was done using the rinky dink all in one tiny tach/hourmeter/temp gauge....I was going big.  Fluke meter big.

Well I only got one flight with the fluke meter set up and was going for a second flight where I was gonna finally get some good readings where I could watch the meter (constantly) and not have to worry about flying into anything (Cameron)...Then the motor ate itself.  So no readings more than what I had previously recorded and already knew.  No further info, per se.

 

But yeah, this motor was a hot lil some bitch from what I gathered trapped under all that Carbonfiber....

 

 

 

 

[doubledeez]

Update, Motor is back together and running.  Doing break in cycles now.  One more ground run break in cycle left to go then I can start flying it again.  Doing same as before.  32:1 premix.  Gonna run that for the first 6 hours then going to 50:1.

Motor has new head, piston, cylinder, and new coil installed.  Couldn't make out any real changes other than the one mounting foot on the coil was shortened on one side.  Not sure the reasoning behind this.  Maybe they thought chopping off a piece of the foot would allow easier removal without having to remove the flywheel??  That's not the case though, because you still must remove the flywheel to get it off and on.  SO there's that.  Both coils had stamped in Plastic "Mod 150."  Being in aviation we often stamp components with a modification letter A,B,C....and so on so this confused me at first thinking they are just rehashing the same old coil....but the more I think about it 150 is probably designated for the model of engine it was designed for.  So other than manufacture dates in print on the coil, the part numbers were also identical.

On a different note....

They did send a completely new reed cage preassembled with the ss backing plates on the reeds.  I elected to set that assembly aside for spare parts.

They did not address the root cause of the problem.  And I've already removed the ss plates from my original reed cage.  So we are running the original reeds, which look fine....motor runs fine, exactly the same even....minus the ss plates.  I don't feel safe flying this thing with those ticking time bombs in there just waiting to let go and frag my motor again.  We do a lot of open marsh flying down here....

As a matter of fact we had actually just done a 12 mile mini cross country from Lydia to Cypremort Point which took us over open bay and plenty of Alligator infested Marshland, JUST the WEEKEND before, yes, TWO flights before....the motor cratered itself.  How lucky right?

So yeah, they didn't address the reed cage problem.....and I'm not running those reed backings.  Done deal.

 

More to come.  Stay tuned I'll keep y'all posted.

 

[admin (Simon W)]

Thanks for the update!  

The lesson I will take from this, always remain glide clear of Alligators.

SW

 

[David Singéry]

Hey Doubledeez.

Thank you so much for your input. I have looked at this engine but there is very little around about it. I was set on getting a Moster but I don't trust those exhausts. Do you think that putting the Booysen reeds would be a better option or are you happy with the standard reeds with just the ss removed?

Would you consider getting another one if you were in the market for a paramotor today? If not, what would you consider?

I considered the Nitro but it's less power than the Moster for quite a bit more money and it also has its faults. I would think that the EOS 150 may have the same (if not more ) power than the Nitro.

Thanks again for sharing your experiences.

[doubledeez]

The Moster honestly is probably your best bet at this point.  I can't not in good faith recommend the motor I have.  There are small issues that must be addressed before this engine is airworthy in my book.  For instance, the reeds, I am currently running the original stock reeds without the stainless steel backings.  I refuse to chance another one going through the motor again.  The exhaust also has problems with the nuts at the flange for the silencer to pipe mating where they get loose and back off and will eventually depart the machine.  I have them secured with aircraft safety wire now and they seem to be holding, although I did have to retighten and resafety them recently.  How they got loose is beyond me.  But you can hear it when the exhaust starts to leak so you know to check on it.  Currently I'm having issues of hard starts.  The motor used to be very easy to start cold and would restart easily when hot...before the failure and rebuild.  The carb is tuned perfectly and the motor runs great when flying with the very same carb adjustment settings we had before the failure.  I'm getting a beautiful plug picture as I check the plug after every other flight.  The hard start issue I feel is related to a weaker than normal spark.  We were sent a new coil with the rebuild parts and advised to change it and shim it accordingly.  I feel the shim specs may be off as I can hold the plug in my hand and only receive a mild shock when pulling the rope through.  Any other lawn mower type coil would normally knock you on your ass.  So we may need to close the gaping and get the coil closer to the flywheel.  Still have a few other things to try before that though.  My work around is to remove the airbox before each flight, and by sight, verify the priming of the carb does not exceed 3 to 4 drops of fuel.  Any more than this and it will flood the motor, the plug will be too wet for the weak spark to cross (new plug mind you)  the gap and instead it shorts to the wet fuel and will not start at all unless you install a new dry plug.  Then it fires right up with a fresh plug.  So yeah, I'm still working the kinks out on cold starts.  If you get a new one hopefully they have it factory tuned like it needs to be but we are working with an "A" model as I like to call it.  And having to do our own R&D it seems.  Also, I've yet to see claimed peak rpms for this motor.  The best we've gotten thus far is around 8760 and that was on a cool dry day with current carb settings.  Doing an immediate plug chop from 800 feet after a 1 minute climb proved to be slightly lean as there was not much color on a fresh plug that I had flown on for 1 hr.  So I've since dialed back to where I'm seeing 8500-8600 rpms on climbouts and a peak temp of about 415-417f cht after a 1 min climb and 375f prolonged cruise @6300-6400rpm..  I'm suspect of the parajet prop that came with the motor which may be why we are seeing the lower than claimed rpms from EOS.  The motor was originally sent to us from parajet with the wrong prop.  We were advised not to run it hard or fly it until the new replacement prob arrived.  The new prop looked like it was made for a 150cc type motor but had parajet markings on it.  Most EOS motors I see have the Eos 150 placard on the blades.  Mine says parajet.  SO there's that.  I feel they may have us running a higher pitch. Other than that it's been a joy to fly.  It's like any 2 stroke out there though.  You have to find what works and stick with it until you get it right.  They all have issues.  It just seems Vito has been at the game longer and have more of the bugs worked out.  I will say this about the EOS though, it's very smooth as far as vibrations go, smoother than the mosters I've demo'd for sure.  Good luck on deciding,.  I'm sure I'll post more about it in the coming months as we get our summer peak tuning dialed in and iron out the hard starts issue. 

 

Cheers.

 

DD

[cas_whitmore]

Nice review, I’ve 100 booster purchased new , and it’s always bitch to start first time when cold , I thought I’d try fitting a choke affair ‘ made no difference. I’ve tried easy start spray before any priming , nothing , zilch ‘ I’m with you on spark energy or lack of energy, after first   Start though it fires instantly one finger pull ‘ so far only thing that made a big difference to first start was moving the start cord pulley higher up the frame . Also used a old A line off of my wing which allowed me to put many more turns on the starter drum .                            

‘Also removed the s/s backers off of reeds after reading your mishap .  

Cas .

[admin (Simon W)]

To start my 100 I just over prime it, whack it on my back and start the de-flood process mate. It started 1st or second time every time (same with my 150) (bin the manual advice!) 

SW

 

[David Singéry]

Hey DD

Thank you so much for your honest feedback - waaaaay more helpful than anything I have come across on the internet or anything constructive/destructive from anyone else. I will most likely stick with the Moster and take my chances on the exhaust issue. It would be great if Skymax had their titanium pipe ready since I think that would be such a great combination.

Good luck with the rest of your testing and problem solving. It's a shame that the manufacturer doesn't have these issues dialed in after the EOS 100. They didn't get a good rap for the 100 and their service for that model's issues. from what I am lead to believe, was terrible.

I believe that the new Moster is a lot smoother - smoother than the Nitro anyway with noticeably more power. It's just the exhaust issue....

Cheers

D

[doubledeez]

Yep it's been fun actually, tuning and working on her.  It's not for most though.  I'm a tinkerer by trade, and a bit of a staunch scientific method follower.  I like to test and test and test till I know exactly how shit works.  And then try to get optimum results.  I just flew Galveston beach a lil bit ago before typing this.  Motor still running well.  wx was strange though and very misleading.  it was as  I've never seen it before over here.  It was almost calm at surface, about 4-7mph winds...but as soon as you climbed to 100ft and above the wind was pumping.  I know my wing flys exactly 25mph trims out, no bar.  And I was parked after climbing to pattern alt,  I was like uhh oh...this ain't good.  So much for my mini xc I had planned to go meet the fellas down at west beach. so I got down lower and was able to make a little head way up and down the beach crabbing the whole time.  Winds were directly onshore so that was good. 

 

Glad you guys appreciate the input, I like the feed back.  I think the hard start issue was too rich on the low screw esp. since today was T-80F and H-86%. Spark pic agreed with assumptions.  So after I flew for an hour I checked the plug and sure enough lots of oily carbon deposits and build up on intake side of plug on base of threads.  Almost clean on opposite side of plug (exhaust side) and I was a wee bit lean on the Hi screw.  So I tweaked both screws accordingly, lo to lean and hi to richen about 1 degree turn each.  Lo and behold, she wants to start easy now.  Peak rpms also showed making good power and gained a few more rpms from prior flight.  Didn't fly it yet with those settings as I have to get ready for work.  Maybe tomorrow if the wx holds.

 

Later fellas. 

[patamoteur]

Hello, I had not read this post at the time ... or I had an Eos 150 during the summer of 2018 ... A motor full of quality and a pleasant start, only worries he overconsumed and mounted so high in temperature that it ended up tightening! I was trying to optimize the consumption but at 240 ° Celcius it was not easy ... However Seb K-paramotor and Roland played well the game and the service worked, but the concern was over! I started to inquire around, some said they had no problem and others the same! the carburettor was so hot sometimes that gasoline evaporated and burned while trying to fix it! This situation without official recognition became critical when my launcher is separated from the engine by breaking its three links! It was too much for me and I could happily have the engine changed for another brand. thanks K-Paramotor! Some time later the 2019 version without crankcase confirmed my diagnosis of endemic motor overheating! Unfortunately for EOS, it made him miss the French market, behind it is engulfed AC and his Nitro on the profile of lightness. It is nevertheless I think a good engine which was put a little early on the market being not sufficiently tested in summer conditions. Attention to the relief too pushed ... already that our engines are unreliable ... Good flights! This is a google translation ...

Edited March 29, 2019 by patamoteur

[parashootist]

Just got in a new 2018 EOS 150. Currently working through some of the service bulletins to ensure it's good to go before I get it mounted and begin breaking it in. 

One of the service bulletins has you check the piston ring gap (for motors under serial # 122 which mine of course is). I have done this and filed them to the appropriate spec since mine were below their spec. I'm wondering if reusing the gaskets is going to be an issue on a never started engine? 

Also wondering if I should just remove the stainless reed backers before I even start using the motor?

[doubledeez]

Shouldn't be an issue reusing gaskets.

EOS has amended the service interval on the reeds.  Instead of inspecting every 100hrs, they advise replacing at 50hrs....

It's in one of the downloadables on their website.

 

[parashootist]

8 hours ago, doubledeez said:

Shouldn't be an issue reusing gaskets.

EOS has amended the service interval on the reeds.  Instead of inspecting every 100hrs, they advise replacing at 50hrs....

It's in one of the downloadables on their website.

 

I saw the update to the service interval. It's not always easy to tell if metal is fatiguing though. If they're not really needed I might just remove them as a precaution. 

[doubledeez]

Everywhere we fly down here is treacherous.  If I lived in Iowa I'd probably leave them in.  But like I told Matt, I just didn't feel safe from another motor out.  I don't trust them not to fail again.  If you fly over plenty of grass lands I'd say leave them in and chance it.  But if you are in an area like us with swamp, marsh, and lots of hardwood, between densely populated areas with very few bailouts.....well.  You make the call.  I got lucky on my first run.  That luck won't last if I push it.

[parashootist]

1 hour ago, doubledeez said:

Everywhere we fly down here is treacherous.  If I lived in Iowa I'd probably leave them in.  But like I told Matt, I just didn't feel safe from another motor out.  I don't trust them not to fail again.  If you fly over plenty of grass lands I'd say leave them in and chance it.  But if you are in an area like us with swamp, marsh, and lots of hardwood, between densely populated areas with very few bailouts.....well.  You make the call.  I got lucky on my first run.  That luck won't last if I push it.

Is there a benefit to them? It seemed like you didn't notice a degradation in performance with yours out. 

[doubledeez]

I don't think they are needed.  I see no change at all with them out.  Motor still running good.  Just did a rebuild on the carb.  The diaphragm was a little stretched after a full year of use, motor starts as easy now as it did when new.

Making about 8600-8700 rpms max currently 125 prop.

Still fine tuning carb after rebuild,

after soft seating and visually watching lo and hi mixture set screws go into fuel chambers and seats, noticed the original reference points from bottomed out have changed by a few degrees.  (screws are not pictured where they were before rebuild)  So this is affecting my fine tuning a wee bit.

Current settings:

wx, temp 70f, humidity 78% baro 29.88

Lo 1 and 1/8 out.

Hi 7/8 out.

Don't really think this motor will make any more power than where I have it set. Belt is tensioned to specs and not slipping. Heat range is cruise 6400rpm 396f-  , 1 minute climb at max power 417-430f.

Thinking of going from br9hs to a br10hs to see if she'll run cooler temps, not diggin on the 430f.  Already know my chinese temp probe won't tolerate any thing higher than 465f.

[parashootist]

Thanks for all this info. My frame arrived this week, I needed spacers made to give clearance between the cylinder head and frame but I should have it together within a week. Going to do the break in and then hopefully I'll get a first flight soon after. I'll post up my experiences once I get it going. 

[cas_whitmore]

Also run my 100 booster without s/s backers ‘ so far so good. 

[steve2339]

Newbie here researching my first paramotor purchase.  Have any respondents here reviewed the mod. 2019 version of these engines and formed any opinions about the new iterations? I am really drawn to the power to weight advantages of them.

[parashootist]

29 minutes ago, steve2339 said:

Newbie here researching my first paramotor purchase.  Have any respondents here reviewed the mod. 2019 version of these engines and formed any opinions about the new iterations? I am really drawn to the power to weight advantages of them.

From what I can tell the 2019 just has a few updates to the 2018 version.

1. Coated cylinder head to reduce temps slightly along with removing the original cylinder head shroud.

2. Modification of original ignition (removal of 1 of the feet)

3. Guide for pull start cord.

 

All of these mods are able to be performed on the older engines so they should be pretty comparable. 

[Scott Harcourt]

I have the 2019 version. It’s a great little motor. I’ve put 13 hours on it in a few months after changing from a Bailey v5s and had no problems. Mines in a Zenith frame but also flown a Wasp frame with the 150ici. The Wasp setup is 6kg lighter than mine and was superb. I’m going to swap my frame for one ASAP.

[KarmaCommando]

Alright, so I believe my coil spit the bit- I have a really bad power fade after 30 seconds of full power. Resistance of the secondary wire is 8.8k ohms, which I believe is way low. Also, since the cap snapped off in my hand, I have a cable splicer with a different wire and cap. 

 

Is the coil used on the base model 150 (not the ICI) the same generic one that's used on the Cors-air and Moster 185 or is it a specialty EOS part? The coil from EOS is $150 plus shipping. The "normal" generic coils are $40....