custom-vince Posted October 19, 2017 Author Share Posted October 19, 2017 what if it only a DGAC certification, how does that work. Is that classed as certified or uncertified? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slarratt1 Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 Good question, has this got a en rating? Or does it fall under its heavier weighted cousin as this is just a lighter version.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 I thought DGAC was not certified, which is why it is not EN rated. This is what the BHPA say: The DGAC scheme is a manufacturer’s declaration and the BHPA does not regard this as an acceptable independent verification of a wing’s flight safety characteristics. A wing is uncertified if registered under the DGAC scheme only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin (Simon W) Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 My comment was less about the certification as such... As pilots we can only buy and fly what exists. If there was a problem which was caused by the wing it's self then the wing rating comes in to play and that would be for the insurers to fight out. One thing is almost certain though... if you were to have an accident on a wing which the manufacturers clearly state a weight range on and you are outside of that bracket, it would invalidate a claim ( I have checked with my life insurance in the past ). The difference being, you made a decision to fly a wing which the people who made it told you not too. Same applies if you are not wearing a certified (for it's use) helmet which is a real pain in the arse. Same applies to all aircraft, Plane or heli over or under weight (no insurance for the flight to take place) SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_k Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 2 minutes ago, admin (Simon W) said: .....and you are outside of that bracket, it would invalidate a claim . Same applies if you are not wearing a certified (for it's use) helmet which is a real pain in the arse. SW Very good points and ones that need to be highlighted. Do you include this as advice in your insurance threads Si? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin (Simon W) Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 We don't (currently) offer a life insurance policy so in the interest of trying to keep it clean I kept it to 3rd party related content. If / when we can offer a life policy I will make sure that this is very clear. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custom-vince Posted October 24, 2017 Author Share Posted October 24, 2017 So the Wings with EN rating and also DGAC rating. They have 2 ranges. say the EN is 80-110 kg the DGAC load rating is 150kg. If you are within the 150kg then you are not flying outside the guided weight range, despite the fact that BHPA do not recognise it as a certification which is correct as it is not flight conditions tested as per an EN rating. I take DGAC as just a loading test and not as any recommendation of handling. That I get from flying it myself and from other pilots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin (Simon W) Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 Not being an accident investigator I can only assume that whatever was written on the wings certificate (the sticker inside the wing's leading edge or on the tip) would need to be inline with the all up weight at the time. Common sense I guess...... SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The80s Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 (edited) On 10/17/2017 at 18:07, Slarratt1 said: Have you got a local instructor you can go to at All? There are lots of considerations as you should know, height of normal takeoff, normal weather conditions, mainly pg or ppg, if ppg what size/weight of motor have you got/are getting, have you considered weight of other equipment/accessories you may have? What is your weight... Right now I'm about 235lbs (106.5kg) but by this coming summer I'll probably be in the 195 range (88.5kg). After all of my research I think I'm going to go with Air Conception. I've liked everything I've seen from them, especially their 2 year warranty. Primarily I plan on doing mainly sight seeing/cross country flying, so I will be carrying some extra weight at times including camping supplies and extra fuel. But not always. There will be plenty of times when I'll go up with just the bare minimum to have some fun, maybe do a little light acro. I do have my heart set on ozone though. After doing my research on wings, they are the most desirable to me. And of my options as a beginner, the Spyder is my top choice. I've heard nothing but good things about it, especially from other beginners who've chosen it as their first wing. I've found the school I'm going to go to, but they're located about 9 hours from where I live. When I make it out there for training I'll be sure to discuss all of my concerns with them about the wing. I was just trying to get a head start on things and figure out as much as I could now. Because like I said, based on my current weight (not including supplies) I fall right about in the 26m range. But by the summer I could be down to a 24 or 22m. So say I go with the 26m and it works perfectly for me now, how's it going to work for me when I'm 40 lbs lighter? And vice versa? If I go with a lighter wing, how's it going to work out for me if I bulk up again? That's why I'm wondering if I should go with something that'll fit either side of the spectrum. Like an in-between size. Edited November 2, 2017 by The80s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 I am 86 Kg and have 28m. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 Another point to consider with sizes is whether you intend the free fly the wing. If so, it’s worth being within the EN rating for free flight. That’s obviously all up weight with a free flight harness & equipment, not the motor. Justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slarratt1 Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 Can always add weight to the pilot for ppg and get the larger wing, carry a full fuel load etc but always best to discuss with a certified instructor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shorehambeach Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 I LOVE my Ozone Spyder. It just wants to inflate and fly. Simples. Colour codes for us idiots. Tip steering..... what more can i say ......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The80s Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 On 11/20/2017 at 07:36, Shorehambeach said: I LOVE my Ozone Spyder. It just wants to inflate and fly. Simples. Colour codes for us idiots. Tip steering..... what more can i say ......... How is it with trims out? Good speed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The80s Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 Unbelievably, where I live there's pretty much no open grassy parks I can launch from (the ones we have are surrounded by big trees, so I'd only have like 300 feet to get up and over 70+ foot trees directly in the way in all directions). The only place I can really do it from where it's completely open is the local airport. But then I'll have to set up and launch from the asphalt. How bad is this going to be for the Spyder and is there anything I can do to limit the potential damage from taking off from asphalt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shorehambeach Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 On 06/01/2018 at 16:33, The80s said: Unbelievably, where I live there's pretty much no open grassy parks I can launch from (the ones we have are surrounded by big trees, so I'd only have like 300 feet to get up and over 70+ foot trees directly in the way in all directions). The only place I can really do it from where it's completely open is the local airport. But then I'll have to set up and launch from the asphalt. How bad is this going to be for the Spyder and is there anything I can do to limit the potential damage from taking off from asphalt? Mind those rotors from the trees ? the spyder is an ultra thin skin so it won't wear too well on asphalt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slarratt1 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 On 06/01/2018 at 16:33, The80s said: Unbelievably, where I live there's pretty much no open grassy parks I can launch from (the ones we have are surrounded by big trees, so I'd only have like 300 feet to get up and over 70+ foot trees directly in the way in all directions). The only place I can really do it from where it's completely open is the local airport. But then I'll have to set up and launch from the asphalt. How bad is this going to be for the Spyder and is there anything I can do to limit the potential damage from taking off from asphalt? The best thing would be to set up the wing so that you lay it out on grass and perform a launch from that positioning if possible. Same as any wing its how you treat them, if i was doing ground handling i would only do so on grass and at the same time i would not kite it in strong winds which would mean a lot of hard hits against the ground if colapsing to build a wall etc. Best is to be getting a second hand wing for that, preferably a roadster which has very similar characteristics and can be a no fly wing for kiting and groundhandling only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The80s Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 (edited) Does anyone with a Spyder have any feedback for how it handles acro, such as SATs and wingovers and other high-G maneuvers? Considering I will probably need a bigger wing in the 24 - 28m range, I'm wondering how such a big thing will handle this stuff, which I will inevitably want to do. Edited January 27, 2018 by The80s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paramoteur Bretagne Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 https://youtu.be/TRk4Tlp_sW0 Spoiler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamjedgar Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 (edited) Interesting...im going to start a new thread as this has just raised a question for me... Edited January 29, 2018 by adamjedgar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian5708 Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 On 28/01/2018 at 01:12, The80s said: Does anyone with a Spyder have any feedback for how it handles acro, such as SATs and wingovers and other high-G maneuvers? Considering I will probably need a bigger wing in the 24 - 28m range, I'm wondering how such a big thing will handle this stuff, which I will inevitably want to do. Hi, I realise this is quote an old thread now but I would recommend that you download the Spyder manual from the ozone website. It clearly stakes that the glider is not designed for acro and high G manoeuvres are not recommended or words to that effect. I'm getting a spyder soon and have done SAT's on other gliders but I don't think I would want to do one on a Spyder. https://www.google.co.th/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.flyozone.com/pdf/PPG/spyder/Spyder_manual_EN.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjjttejybTaAhUMLI8KHe3mBXQQFjAAegQIABAB&usg=AOvVaw0A-6s8Yy1ZBHs7I--GBxVS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeratul Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 1 hour ago, ian5708 said: Hi, I realise this is quote an old thread now but I would recommend that you download the Spyder manual from the ozone website. It clearly stakes that the glider is not designed for acro and high G manoeuvres are not recommended or words to that effect. I'm getting a spyder soon and have done SAT's on other gliders but I don't think I would want to do one on a Spyder. https://www.google.co.th/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.flyozone.com/pdf/PPG/spyder/Spyder_manual_EN.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjjttejybTaAhUMLI8KHe3mBXQQFjAAegQIABAB&usg=AOvVaw0A-6s8Yy1ZBHs7I--GBxVS interesting - thats changed how I feel about getting a Spyder now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The80s Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Thanks for posting that. I really want the lighter wing, but I also want to be able to rip around any time I feel like it without having to worry. This is a bummer. I'll either just have to suck it up and go with this and not do so much ripping, so I'll have to go with a heavier wing. Not sure yet. Being able to easily launch in no wind is a major plus though. I think I'm still leaning towards the Spyder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 I'm not sure you can really tell the difference (once in the air) between standard and light versions. Light makes launch easier, unless you power launch and then it makes no difference. Once in the air they are the same size/shape etc I have the Roadster 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The80s Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 On 4/13/2018 at 02:44, AndyB said: I'm not sure you can really tell the difference (once in the air) between standard and light versions. Light makes launch easier, unless you power launch and then it makes no difference. Once in the air they are the same size/shape etc I have the Roadster 2. Is it more heavy duty than the Spyder and able to hold up to abuse better? Seeing as I do want to be able to do a little bit of acro (wing overs and sats) perhaps this is the wing for me. How do you like it? Is it a pretty fast wing when you go trims out? Is it fairly resistant to collapses, and is it good to do XC's with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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