Hemberg Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 (edited) I have the viper 3 22m2 and I usually fly pretty basic XC style and take a lot of aerial photos from the glider. I usually fly i calm conditions. I have become a bit more lazy and wanted something that fly straight (the viper has a tendency to oscillate some) and was a bit more convenient to take off and land with so I bought a speedster 2 26m2. I don't need to fancy glider from a practical point of view. That was a mistake. I have gotten more used to a smaller glider than I thought. The viper 3 is a very efficient glider so its higher rpm with the larger speedster and it felt more docile than I thought. Nothing wrong with it but I want something different. So I'm a bit curious about the freeride. Somewhere in between viper and speedster sounds like a good idea. But is is an efficient glider, or will I need to use significantly more power compared to a viper 3? Does it oscillate in neutral position? (white stripes) I'm thinking a 19 m2 maybe. Is it easy to get in the air without running too much? My naked weight is about 80 kg. But I'll loose some weight and change to a nitro 200 or something like that so that will do at least 15 kg less weight which should help a lot. Or just put your thoughts about the freeride. Edited September 29, 2017 by Hemberg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custom-vince Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 no point in repeating myself. Have a look at this previous post linked below. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemberg Posted September 29, 2017 Author Share Posted September 29, 2017 Thanks, not sure why I didn't find that when I search. I reply in that thread instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GR002 Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 I too was thinking of the Freeride to but seen on Tucker Gotts video last week that he said The Freeride had a bit of oscillation issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemberg Posted September 29, 2017 Author Share Posted September 29, 2017 He managed to get them sorted out by adjusting the brake lines (he mentioned this in the latest QA) I hope he makes a review later in a video on the glider and over all experience with it flying in (I presume) uncomfortable conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitchg Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 I test flew a 19m freeride at 100kg all up. I found that it does like to oscillate a bit. If you hit a little bubble of air that makes you turn or you make a turn, then you have to dampen the wing out to get it to fly straight again especially if you are on speedbar (most of the speed range). The good side of the freeride is it launches and lands like a dream. Tons of lift when you are deep in the brakes on landing. The bad side is it oscillates and almost always requires piloting unless the air is butter smooth. And the wing is very twitchy in turbulence pitching fore, aft, and yawing. Just to give a comparison my hadron xx 18m moves around about half as much in the same conditions which is much more confidence inspiring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin (Simon W) Posted December 27, 2017 Share Posted December 27, 2017 I am just not sure what it is about the Ozone wings, but whenever we see them at the airfield, they do all just seem to oscillate a little during climb out. SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GR002 Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 I have a Freeride 19 on order and will post my review after a few flights. I have flown Paramania wings since the Action and Have a GTR and GTX, I find them to be safe wings. I also have a Dudek Snake XX 20. So it will be interesting to compare them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONYPARAMOTOR Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 (edited) hmm i fly a viper 3 .and in my videos I've mentioned about the oscillation. more than once. ive mentioned about the unsheathed riser lines that can get tangled up..and to untangle them as mentioned by ozone you need to be an expert. but if i was a expert and spend some time to untangle the risers there's no way ill buy the wing. and ive also mentioned about the brake magnets being crap.i changed them over to gin magnets.which are stronger and far better. as i like freestyle flying. big ears. spirals etc. any way what i said got through to ozone.. and they came up with the ozone freeride. now depending on the skill of the pilot and what he's looking for the ozone freeride is the wing for me the freeride now has sheathed risers.better magnets easier for the pilot.. and in time ill has to save up to buy the wing.not at the moment as iam a pauper. better still get a demo on the ozone freeride. your the pilot whos gonna be flying it. ;0) up date the wing dealers are wing salesman .. full stop. pilots need to demo wings far more. but i know its a nightmare trying to get a demo on a wing that we have our eye on. pilots need to speak up about the faults in there wings.instead of selling the wings on ,in other words passing the buck. i know of a pilot who had a collapse. a well-known pilot.sold the wing on.never told the buyer that the wing had a collapse.and damaged. and that he made modifications to the lines.the buyer found out all this by taking the wing for inspection .the buyer also sent e-mails to the pilot who sold him a dangerous wing.but with no replys. i know who he is...... and the pilot who brought the wing know who he is...... " doberman 2" on inspection written down mentioning that modifications had been made. and made the wing is lethal.. more so after the pilot had a collapse.and had to use hes reserve???? = pass the buck. Edited July 18, 2018 by TONYPARAMOTOR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crafty1 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Can anyone shed some light on a problem I have with my itv boxer gt. in which it swing me side to side in all conditions and get worse the more I let the trimmers out, to the point I don't let them out after take off, which is anoying as I brought the wing as a faster xc wing, is I my harness set up or just the type of wing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin (Simon W) Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 That sounds a little concerning. Some useful into would be, what motor you are flying, how much you weigh, what size the wing is We 'May' be able to work something out with this info SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crafty1 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Hi my motor is 185 monster in a pap frame my all up weight is 134 kg and my wing is a 25.1 m2. hope you can help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch130 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 My boxer GT only swings very slightly in roughish air on full speed setting but then settles itself out. Im 105kg all up (plus the weight of the fuel ..usually 4 litres) and I am also on the 25M wing.If it does swing I sometimes settle it with a slight brake input but often don't bother as its minimal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamjedgar Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) Couple of things i noticed here that i would like to comment on in my experi3nce both free flying and motoring... 1. To pilot who purchased a 26 m speedstar after having had a viper...i am totally not surprised you are dissapointed...why on earth would you get that size in the speedster(its way too big after a viper). 2. Oscillations are almost always an issue with smaller wings..its comes with the territory and unless the wing has tip activation when trimmers are let out, this is going to be a problem to some extent and gets worse as the wing gets smaller. Some manufacturers have added technology into their designs to combat this exact problem when cruising (with trimmers closed too bad...you just have to put up with it or get a larger wing over 20m flat)...or buy an apco that has turned down tips/flat arch which apparently helps (little cloud do this with their free flying wings for this reason i believe). My understanding is that line lengths also influences side to side oscillation. 3. In terms of surging and twitchiness, i would suggest this is simply a matter of aspect ratio and also wing loading...certainly the higher the AR the more apparently unstable these things feel...ie canopy flexes more, they move around etc. Cetainly this lack of comfort is very pronounced when free flying high aspect ratio 2 liners. I think at the end of the day one has to remember that paramotoring wing selection needs to be made with the same progression philosophy as free flying gliders...indeed even more so because we are flying similar sized wings 30kg overweight by comparison. i free fly an Icepeak competition 2 liner and when go back to a standard wing it feels like they have no balls...very frustrating. On a positive note however, the comfort of the low end gliders is phenominal in shitty air. I think in its own unique way paramotor wings are same. One must compromise...but its important to be careful about wing size when going down the classes...for example flying a 17m glider and then buying a 26m is going to immediately frustrate even if it was exactly the same type of wing. One is going to feel like they are flying a bus. Edited January 22, 2018 by adamjedgar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GR002 Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 I got my first two flights on my New Freeride today. It is the siize 19 and flew it on a baileys V5 at 135 kg all up. It is a fast and efficient wing but not so forgiving as my Dudek Snake Xx 20 and it does oscillate . I am going to have to put a good few hours on it to give a proper report on wing. I remember Tucker Gott doing some thing to reduce the oscillation, if any body knows what he did it would be good to know other wise I will troll through his videos. This is not a wing for low air time pilots or from coming straight from a large floaty wing 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin (Simon W) Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Please make your last sentence BOLD SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitchg Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 On 1/22/2018 at 04:19, adamjedgar said: Couple of things i noticed here that i would like to comment on in my experi3nce both free flying and motoring... 3. In terms of surging and twitchiness, i would suggest this is simply a matter of aspect ratio and also wing loading...certainly the higher the AR the more apparently unstable these things feel...ie canopy flexes more, they move around etc. Cetainly this lack of comfort is very pronounced when free flying high aspect ratio 2 liners. The Hadronxx has a higher aspect ratio than the Freeride and my Hadron is 1m smaller but it much less twitchy than a freeride. Higher aspect ratio doesnt always mean one design will be more twitchy than another. I believe the Hadron is less twitchy because of the amount of reflex it has even with trims in. Where as the freeride gains more reflex as you trim out or speedbar, but with the tirms in, its closer to a freeflight wing (twitchy but efficient). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamjedgar Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 (edited) Yes that could be it...however another point to consider is canopy curve across the span...if you look at apco, little cloud goose, and most velocity paragliders wings, you will notice they all have a flat arch through the middle span with shorter radius on the tips (turned down). This design feature apparently makes a significance difference on side to side oscillation....it certainly does on my 21m little cloud goose mk2. Another consideration is additional technologies used in the lineset that pull tips down when speed system is engaged...AR is not the only thing but generally speaking, higher AR wings are more efficient but with perbaps the exception of miniwings and speed wings, they are mostly harder to fly, flex more, and require more active piloting. An example of an outrageous demonstration is in the link below. Its called a "deathblade" and for good reason. https://vimeo.com/30837697 There is a 13:1 AR paraglider that needs a pilot who is absolutely insane. Edited February 1, 2018 by adamjedgar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Morgan Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 The Free ride is a slalom style wing so will have a great roll rate and will be twitchy , Ive not noticed any oscillation on my 15m flying in calm conditions, testing Ave speeds in calm conditions there was no correction needed from slow trims to Full Bar... When the air is not so smooth it will move around for sure but any High level Slalom wing will. there designed to turn!! I only have to look at my brake handle and it will loop!!! Reports form some of our pilots flying 19m's say the same.. Most if not all of it's speed will come from Bar or using PK system.. The old slalom used to have a much longer trim range but i always used to fly it 1/2 to 3/4 as this was the sweet spot for agility and brake feel... This was also confirmed to me By Alex Mateos who used to fly the same position for Slalom.. The trim range on the Free ride feels the same as my old 16m Slalom, nice light feel on slow with just enough pressure trims out.. GR002 your Comment about low air time is Correct... but i think it goes without saying really... This wing is un certified like the Slalom Viper 3 and Viper 4 so Very experienced pilots only and also those who have small wing experience... Even a highly experienced pilots with 1000's of hours on large wings will have a very big shock dropping down to Any sub 20m (slalom style) wing.. My advise before buying is to speak to a dealer who has Experience with the wing you want to buy and go demo one! I am surprised you went with a 19m flying a Bailey V5. flying around 7.1kg Per Square meter that poor motor won't have the power to fly it correctly.. i'm 115kg all up @7.66kg Pm2 and need every once of power the 250 can give... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GR002 Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Hi Mark, I agree with every thing you said above I do have two Moster paramotors as well and know if I want to get full use from Freeride I would need the extra power. But it just shows how efficient the Freeride is that I can fly it on a Baileys. If I use the bar then I drop fast on the Baileys But all trim settings without bar it is ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GR002 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 I flew the Freeride today with an Airfer paramotor with a Moster engine . The wing felt better with the extra power. The funny thing was there was no oscillation using this paramotor compared to flying with the Baileys paramotor. But last night I changed the brakes to the lower pulley setting according to manual I had to lengthen brake lines but wing tip steering lines remained the same ( some one correct me if this is wrong) I wonder if there is slightly more pressure on the tip lines or the different paramotor made for a steadier flight? climb rate is very good on this set up for a small wing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONYPARAMOTOR Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 (edited) On 02/01/2018 at 21:21, Crafty1 said: Hi my motor is 185 monster in a pap frame my all up weight is 134 kg and my wing is a 25.1 m2. hope you can help. crafty 1 , first up ask the dealer or manufacturer. if the wing and type swings? then ask is there anything a pilot can do to minimise the swing? double check the brake line toggles too.for length. and while flying check. look up at the riser lines modulate the trims each time look for a bow in the line leading up to the wing.while adjusting the trims the aoa will change as the bow in the riser line will change hence. look and check. .if any brake adjustments made .and that goes for the wing tip line. 2/d steering. or single brake toggle riser like Edited February 8, 2018 by TONYPARAMOTOR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 I flew in bumpy air this morning on my trusty Roadster 2. With no brake pressure and side on to the wind I estimate swing of at least 15 to 20 degrees each way. Rather weirdly it swings more to the windward side, as though the wind picks up the wing tip on that side first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Morgan Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Swing and or oscillation can sometimes be down to the Paramotor set up, I have noticed differences when swapping from one machine to another... GR002 Call your dealer rather than getting secondhand opinions on a forum... your dealer should have experience with the wing he sold you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 On 2/3/2018 at 19:40, AndyB said: I flew in bumpy air this morning on my trusty Roadster 2. With no brake pressure and side on to the wind I estimate swing of at least 15 to 20 degrees each way. Rather weirdly it swings more to the windward side, as though the wind picks up the wing tip on that side first. You mentioned previously about a little brake pressure reduces the oscillation (which is what I have found). Did that work this morning? Too cold here for me today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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