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Scout's future 4 stroke paramotor

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For those who have seen this, do you have any thoughts or opinions about it? 

Just based on what he is saying I like the idea of better reliability over the 2 stroke, and the improved fuel economy. But based on what we can see in this video, is this something that would be worth holding out for? At the moment I am waiting for an Air Conception model to become available, but I'm torn between that one and this one. 

4-Stroke

Single cylinder 240cc

Engine weight 14.4 kg with exhaust

Power 27 HP

Fuel consumption 2 litres per hour (86kg pilot + paramotor on 22sqm Ozone Viper 3)

 

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I don't see how he can call it 'The first true 4 stroke engine for paramotors' when Bailey has had one for years.

The fuel economy is fantastic.

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It can take years before it hit the market for all we know. But yes, if it worked well with specs like that, then it's a dream engine for sure.

By first he means 4stroke with that power/weight, Bailey is not close to that ratio.

Worth to wait for? That depends on the new AC :)

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I was discussing this engine with EOS distributor I know for years. The fuel economy should be great, but there is one disadvantage which makes me really concerned about it. I was told that 4 stroke valve system is quite complex there and I would not be able to adjust and tune it by myself. I am used to the fact that the engines we fly are not very reliable but at the same time I can service my Moster (as an example) by myself. If it is really different with this engine I would better stay away from it. That's my choice... 

PS anybody knows, why the cylinder  head of this engine look so familiar with Bailey? 

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48 minutes ago, AndyB said:

In the world of Radio Control we have been using 4 strokes for years. If you want he best sounding paaramotor EVER then strap one of these on. These are super reliable and have more power than a Top80.

https://www.horizonhobby.com/airplanes/airplane-engines-15042--1/7-cylinder-260cc-4-stroke-gas-radial-engine-evoe7260

 

Faaaaantastic

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9 hours ago, Ivan said:

I was discussing this engine with EOS distributor I know for years. The fuel economy should be great, but there is one disadvantage which makes me really concerned about it. I was told that 4 stroke valve system is quite complex there and I would not be able to adjust and tune it by myself. I am used to the fact that the engines we fly are not very reliable but at the same time I can service my Moster (as an example) by myself. If it is really different with this engine I would better stay away from it. That's my choice... 

PS anybody knows, why the cylinder  head of this engine look so familiar with Bailey? 

I don't mind having to take the motor into a shop and having someone else fix it if it means the motor overall will be significantly more reliable. 

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Totally agree. 

What I would mind is sending the motor to the other side of the country by courier services, getting it back in 2 - 3 weeks of precious summer time just to find out that the problem still exists :D

That's what I was seeing throughout being in this sport, at least with Moster you can keep it simple and do most of the things yourself. Sorry for being might be too cautious sometime. I am looking at 4 strike motors for quite a while as it is a pain to do every single take off for cross country with 20 litres of fuel on me but can't see any light and reliable option for now. Hope the situation with this motor will be different.

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Sure. But Thor 250 weights 18kg (19kg with electric stater) without the radiator and fluid. That's what Polini site states. So I would expect 20 kg at least with the radiator.  Some Web sites state 24kg... I am not a superhero :D

 

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22 hours ago, Ivan said:

20 kg at least with the radiator.  Some Web sites state 24kg... :D

 

Wow, didn`t realise it was that heavy!

At that weight it totally negates the better fuel efficiency. You`d still be better off with a lighter but thirstier motor with more fuel on board..

You don`t like (the) Bailey?

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I have a thor 200  in a zenith  frame and with 10l fuel the weight does not feel heavy at all , it has to do with the way the engine and chassis fit on your back (engine is quite high up on the chassis ). Fuel consumption was around 2l per hour.

When I fit my lighter jpx on the same chassis ,  without any fuel,  it feels a lot heavier . The engine sits a lot lower on on the chassis.

(On the original bailey chassis  it felt like there was no weight at all.)

The whole engine chassis  design makes a big difference .

 

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14 hours ago, Casper said:

Wow! that's a nice price for an rc engine at that size.

Would anyone be able to calculate how much thrust something like this is capable of producing?

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4 hours ago, Guy said:

Would anyone be able to calculate how much thrust something like this is capable of producing?

yes, roughly speaking, 3/15 more than the Top 80....so about 20% more than that.

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So would an engine like the Moki 400cc 5 cylinder radial engine work? it's about 23hp and weight 9,2 kg. Since it have low rpm and high torque it should work as direct drive.
Or even better, the VM R5-420, 5 cylinder from Valach that have 25hp and weighs just 11,8 kg (without exhaust, many options there). Recommended propeller diameter for RC are up to 106cm for the wooden propellers. I'm almost sure a nice lightweight carbon propeller with a slightly bigger diameter would fit.

Biggest problem would be cooling as I see it, and maintance. Fuel economy is actually very good according to some websites (better than our 2strokes).
Ofc it's not an optimal engine for ppg, but I would love to show up with radial engine on my back, and the sound is magic!

 

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I have some very large RC planes :) one with an 18 kw motor (24hp)

There are some downsides as well! Most RC engines are started by flicking the prop, although it is possible to add on a small electric starter.

They are more noisy as they use smaller props at higher rpm.....but the radials don't half sound good!

I am considering a rather radical approach, which is to use 2 RC engines, each with a 24"/26" prop. These would be counter-rotating so no torque steer. Off-setting the engines front to back allows over-lap of the props in the middle where they are less efficient anyway, behind the pilot. The cage design becomes much smaller and the props would have massive ground clearance!

:)

 

 

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Hi Andy

Have a look at this youtube video

 

I am thinking of getting myself an paracell  kit to fit to my existing chassis , keep us updated I am quite interested in it .

Casey

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Guest chrisg547

Whats the chance of the EOS 4 stroke being a good engine? Because if it does what a Moster, weight/power etc, can do. Then ( I hate to use the words ) it could be a game changer.

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From last week:

Miroslav Svec 
The project is alive. This is a video from last week.
SHORT STORY: Still facing some issues but a solution is on the way. Hope to test again soon. 
LONG STORY:
The engine seems to run fine but there is a problem with oil above 7000 RPM. When piston moves down, it compresses the air below. That air moves to the top part of the engine (blue cover) and there is a breather to prevent over-pressure. The breather sucks air in and out with every cycle. Unfortunately, at higher RPM the fast moving air spits oil out of the breather. There are labyrinth channels to separate oil from this air but it obviously does not work perfect in certain engine position (lean forward). Next is to install a stand-alone oil separator and see how that works.

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