Flying on Paraglider Sites

[paramad]

Hi Guys, I'm the Northern sites officer for the Avon Paragliding & Hanggliding Club. We have agreements with several land owners with regards to the sites that we fly. It is our understanding that it is not practical for both paramotors and paragliders to share the same launch as this could be dangerous. This we thought was the general understanding between paramotoring and paragliding.

On the 27th March there were several paraglider pilots flying at the Selsley Common site. An enthusiastic paramotoring pilot came to Selsley suggesting that he would fly his paramotor there. I beleive he was discouraged but I would like to clarify the situation of flying sites.

The other issue was that he seemed to have no formal training and therefore wouldn't be insured by the BHPA for public liabilities.

At this time I do not have the pilots name or details but would like to encourage hime to take formal training as this would be safer for him and the general public.

Morgan

[gordon_dunn]

When i hear stories like this, about pilots wanting to fly without any formal training, the seemingly 'harsh' stance by the Irish Aviation Authority (IAA) seems quite reasonable.

They insist that to fly in the Republic, you must hold a valid exemption- in order to get the exemption you must produce evidence that you attended a certified training school, aquired a rating, passed a medical, and hold valid 3rd party insurance.

The only downside on the Irish system as it currently stands, is the medical- they insist on a Class 2 medical- which is equivalent for a full PPL.

In Northern Ireland, the same rules apply as the rest of the UK. But pilots that are caught flying in the south run the risk of being prosecuted, having their gear confiscated and being fined 10,000 Euro.

I'd say it's a matter of time before the UK follow suit- especially with the increased popularity of the sport.

GD

[pete_b]

Hi Guys, I'm the Northern sites officer for the Avon Paragliding & Hanggliding Club. We have agreements with several land owners with regards to the sites that we fly. It is our understanding that it is not practical for both paramotors and paragliders to share the same launch as this could be dangerous. This we thought was the general understanding between paramotoring and paragliding.

On the 27th March there were several paraglider pilots flying at the Selsley Common site. An enthusiastic paramotoring pilot came to Selsley suggesting that he would fly his paramotor there. I beleive he was discouraged but I would like to clarify the situation of flying sites.

The other issue was that he seemed to have no formal training and therefore wouldn't be insured by the BHPA for public liabilities.

At this time I do not have the pilots name or details but would like to encourage hime to take formal training as this would be safer for him and the general public.

Morgan

There is no practical reson why both cannot use the same site so long as each knows what to do and not what to do.

I beleve that most paragliding sites are agrreed due to it being a quite sport

You do not need formal training (but I would very strongly recomeded this) and you can get insurances with out any

Pete b

[Guest]

All,

It is a good time of year to have this conversation and I am glad that you have joined the forum to highlight this 'problem'

As Pete says, the MAIN reason that we are 'some times' asked nicely not to fly the BHPA hill sites with our Paramotors is due to the fact that the land has been Negotiated based on it being a 'quiet' sport, and one where all of the pilots have the same insurance cover (to keep the land owners happy). It would be very bad practice for any paramotor pilot to break this ploite standing as it could risk the hill sites that the members of the BHPA fight hard for each year.

It's the start of the summer soon, so keep your thinking hats on and stay high if your flying over a PG / BHPA site. Please let's not start to P one another off.

There have been a few 'angry' messages on a Paragliding forum aimed at PPG pilots and it is nice to see that someome has taken the time out to piont this out nicely for a change

Welcome by the way

SW

[Guest]

I CANT see why it would be considerd 'unsafe' or 'dangerous' to fly from the same site.

Just some basic human / pilot communication and all would be fine I recon.

SW

[Guest]

There is certainly guidance to BHPA registered PPG pilots to discuss arrangements for site usage with the site organiser, often a BHPA PG club. There is no formal arrangement for non BHPA PPG pilots that I have heard of.

Perhaps this is a good time for this discussion; so that all pilots can assist other disciplines in the appropriate use of sites?

PG sites are mostly ridge soaring sites. The agreement is between the resident club and a land owner for access to the take off and landing areas. BHPA clubs agree with each other that only one club will be the "resident club" and negotiate with the land owner; all other clubs wishing to use the site will be by invitation of the resident club. There are not mnany sites where two clubs actively use one site except where a BHPA school shares a site with a club.

PPG and particularly non BHPA PPG can arrive at a ridge by air and soar it without using the access that the resident club has agreed. This is perfectly legal (if the engine is off - 500feet rule) but it can seem quite rude.

Much better to have an agreement in place. Since PPG can fly anywhere and often do not want to ridge soar it seems pointless to soar the ridge so a conflict would not arise.

It is possible and likely as PPG becomes more widespread that PPG pilots will negotiate site access in flat lands at or near (or atop) established ridge soaring sites. In this case it is in all pilot's interests to get an agreement for airspace usage in place.

This forum seems like a good place to innitiate these contacts and get talking. The BHPA negotiate with airomodeller clubs and BGA gliding clubs in this way.

Thanks Paramad for brining this up.