miniwing2 Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 Can somone please tell me do i have to take the rivets out to get to the flywheel need to see if the woodruf key is about to shear,its well past a joke the way its put together Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miniwing2 Posted May 25, 2017 Author Share Posted May 25, 2017 engine is now apart and the timing had slipped and there was no woodruff key{strange that} anyone els had one apart and found the same.can somone give me a link to the uk supplies or if anyone has got spaes plastic fan ect,also dose ayone know what the flywheel gap is.cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 Will this guide help? http://www.southwestairsports.com/ppgtechinfo/top80/hrservicenotes/timing/timing.htm Can't help more than that, newer had a top 80. (assume that you work on the top 80 from your previous thread) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi k Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 I make my woodruff keys because i can, but you can get all different sizes of egay. And for spares ring http://ukppgwebstore.com/ they keep some spares so might be able to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miniwing2 Posted May 25, 2017 Author Share Posted May 25, 2017 Yes previous thread, once i had established that the engilne wasnt flooded causing compresion,i had to take the flywheel off and what a game it is,only to find that there was no key in the keyway putting the timing out and at a guess thirty thou gap,and the screws tight so it must have been set at that,so its get up and brush the dust off yet again.cheers Casper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miniwing2 Posted May 25, 2017 Author Share Posted May 25, 2017 I onlye intend for it to go once and if it is my only option then i guess a garage would make me one .if it goes again there will b a big blob of weld on that nut even if have to move the hangpoint forward cheers KIWI K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cas_whitmore Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 I've had parts from Danny at flypapuk, also miniplane uk ,both excellent to deal with . And I set the coil/flywheel gap @12thou" incase it helps ' I've had trouble with damaged crank tapper shafts after its spun on the shaft . So I use a bit of valve grinding paste to lap them together ' then heat up the flywheel boss with paint stripper gun for a few mins ' get built up with woodruff key ect ' should get a nice shrink fit . Thought I'd share ' might help . cas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miniwing2 Posted May 26, 2017 Author Share Posted May 26, 2017 Nice one Cas that sounds pretty good to me never thought about heating it up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savage Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 You can't make a Woodruff key, there's no slot in the crank for one. Most PPG motors are like this as they are made from various different scooter parts and haven't been designed to fit together. I have just put my Miniplane flywheel back on after changing the crankshaft oil seals. I timed it up using Had Robinson's excellent website (link above), it was pretty straight forward with dial gauge down the plug hole (cheap off eBay). Miniplane UK are excellent for Top80 spares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miniwing2 Posted June 1, 2017 Author Share Posted June 1, 2017 thanks for the information regarding the absence of the woodruff key .Mine is an early model and has a groove for a key,and i have made one to fit.the only problem i have is there is a slight discrepancy regarding the messurment from the left side of the hole on the flywheel and the leading edge of the coil 40mm .i have 36mm.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cas_whitmore Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 Can you post a picture . cas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savage Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 12 hours ago, miniwing2 said: thanks for the information regarding the absence of the woodruff key .Mine is an early model and has a groove for a key,and i have made one to fit.the only problem i have is there is a slight discrepancy regarding the messurment from the left side of the hole on the flywheel and the leading edge of the coil 40mm .i have 36mm.. It sounds like the timing will be out then (a pic would be good though). The parts weren't made for each other they most likely will not align correctly (Miniplane would have fitted the key if it was simple and saved time at assembly in the factory). It is possible to buy (make) Woodruff keys with an offset if you really need one, but I would just lap the shaft/ flywheel with some grinding past before torquing up. It's fairly unusual for them to slip, it probably wasn't fitted perfectly in the factory. I would steer clear of heating the flywheel and fitting it, you'll never get it off again and you need to, to change the seals etc at 400ish hours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miniwing2 Posted June 2, 2017 Author Share Posted June 2, 2017 Thanks Savage at last sence is starting to emerge,Cascant have the same set up,I think you are spot on the timing will be out,is it any wonder the riveted plate has holes in it i doubt weather i will get rivets big enough to bite due to the amount of times the B-------d has been apart due to the missleading engerneering ,the world is goin backwards.now i cantpost a photo Grrrrrr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miniwing2 Posted June 2, 2017 Author Share Posted June 2, 2017 Y cant uploads be as easy as other sites or is it me ,i am sick of living,i have uploaded two photos,god only knows where they will pop up,thats if the site dosnt crash LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miniwing2 Posted June 2, 2017 Author Share Posted June 2, 2017 Flywheel photos can be viewed in gallery.dont no how they got there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savage Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Seems like you are getting there. Just for future reference, you should be able to remove the fan and all the black metal casing without having to drill out the casing rivets. First you need to remove the starter posts (finger screws) so the fan is loose, then you will find you can get an Alan key through 4 holes in the front of the casing (the bit you have removed in the picture) to undo the 4 bolts that hold the casing on (the fan stays in the casing when you lift it all off). It will be easier to see the marks on the flywheel in relation to the coil too. Good luck. Stuart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miniwing2 Posted June 2, 2017 Author Share Posted June 2, 2017 Born to learn the hard way Stuart,but yea you are right didnt realise that,cant wait for the new parts now,cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miniwing2 Posted June 21, 2017 Author Share Posted June 21, 2017 Right for the second time i am about to assemble my flywheel and fan having cross threaded the finger screw on the first attempt.so now got all new kit ,so on with the flywheel on with the fan,on with the spacers,on with the trident bracket,and guess wot the finger screws dont line up,in fact they are half a hole out. i am shure i am not the only one to come up against this issue,.Just wounded what Miniplane are doing to rectify this problem as i am shure they know it exists,jack shit i expect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savage Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Sounds like the cross threading of the original has perhaps caused the new post to lean slightly? I never had the issue with mine, could one of the posts be slightly bent? Can you push it back? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miniwing2 Posted June 21, 2017 Author Share Posted June 21, 2017 New flywheel and posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miniwing2 Posted June 22, 2017 Author Share Posted June 22, 2017 Just an update on top 80 timing reset.Just managed to secure a loan against my house to buy moore rivets now on there way from China..got it all back together at 4 this morning ,and guess wot,it day start .got the 14 mm bang on but 14 mm takes it off the coil,so messured the old coil against the new one and found the magnet on the new coil is one eigth of an inch smaller which takes one pole outside the coil,this can be felt when i pull it bite 1 is at TDC and bite 2 must be the spark.Like i say wots going on..I am tempted to aline the back edge of coil with the front of the magnet this will take it down to 41mm .i have sett chainsaws and never had this sh1te going on.greatfull for any input even from the people who make the darn thing.Russ from Miniplane has been an absolute rock with service and guidance,who else could you ring up in the middle of a candle lite wedding aniversary and spend an hour on the phone talking flywheel and not bat an eyelid.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi k Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 On 5/30/2017 at 15:39, savage said: You can't make a Woodruff key, there's no slot in the crank for one. Most PPG motors are like this as they are made from various different scooter parts and haven't been designed to fit together. I have just put my Miniplane flywheel back on after changing the crankshaft oil seals. I timed it up using Had Robinson's excellent website (link above), it was pretty straight forward with dial gauge down the plug hole (cheap off eBay). Miniplane UK are excellent for Top80 spares. Are you 100% sure , Most might be like you say but Not all are as can be seen by his pictures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miniwing2 Posted July 24, 2017 Author Share Posted July 24, 2017 Getting TDC is not a problem i simply make a pencile dot on the piston through the egsaust port just b4 it dissapers ,then with a mark 14 mm ahead of the leading magnet set the coil to that mark as shown in the pictures ,wot else can go wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miniwing2 Posted July 24, 2017 Author Share Posted July 24, 2017 With the above settings now it would appear that the magnet is nither on or off the coil its the pull inbetween ,is that correct? question at what position is the magnet in relation to the coil when the spark takes place ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savage Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 It should look like the 9th picture down on this page- http://www.elpasoparagliding.com/ppgtechinfo/top80/hrservicenotes/timing/timing.htm i.e the 14mm line, in line with the leading edge of the magnet when the piston is at TDC. (It takes a bit of trial and error and I am not sure how accurate your pencil mark on the piston is? The dial gauges are cheap on ebay and accurate. I clamped mine to the cooling fins rather than fitting to the spark plug hole). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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