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Moster 185 Plus Problems


asquaddie
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Just asking if anyone have heard of this problem on my new motor (10 hrs). 

Quick Summary.

Just before Christmas I had an engine out (complete stop - no stutter).  Tried starting, but no luck, thought there was no spark, purchased a spark plug tester.

Still no spark, phoned Parajet who said it might be the CDI unit. That arrived and was fitted. Now a spark

Started after 3rd pull. Then stopped after 15 secs.

The motor/ starter felt seized - could not pull the cord more than 4 inches and it was not turning the motor.  Looked inside spark plug hole and found no damage.

Phoned Parajet and the motor was returned to find there was no problem with the motor!!!!

I did notice the next day that the starter was free again, but the head sounded noisy, so decided to let Parajet have a look.

Yesterday.  Good warm to test the motor was OK.  TO was good, but after five minutes engine stopped again like before.

On landing the motor/starter seemed seized.  Phoned Parajet and spoke to them while in the field.  

After 45 minutes the starter seemed OK !!!!  We decided to have another go.

TO, still going good afterl 10 minutes - started to rain so landed. - All confused now............

 

Fuel was fresh and mixed to 40:1 (measured by a baby bottle)

My plan is to put 60 minutes of fuel in again and fly around airfield and if I get the same problem again I'll send it back again.

 

This is not a complaint against Parajet, because they have been there and was helpful.  It is just trying to find the problem with the motor!!!!

 

Any body had this problem before or heard about it on this motor?

Tony

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Could be Hydro Lock? 

If the barrel has an oil/fuel accumulation inside, the engine will not turn over. This sometimes happens from tipping the engine during transport. It may also be the result of flooding the engine during starting. Removing the spark plug and slowly turning the engine will expel the fuel and relieve the hydro lock. Be prepared for muck to come out through the spark plug hole. Best to bung a rag over the top. 

This has happened over the years on a number of different machines. Although I can not recommend that you use a blanket to (roll) your paramotor so the hole points down before turning the engine over slowly. I do and it clears out MUCH quicker when the excess can naturally flow out as well. 

Not saying it IS, but it's certainly worth testing next time it stops I would say. if when you do this you do have fluid in the barrel, you can then start to look at WHY it's happening. :-)

SW :D

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Totaly agree on hydro lock with Simon.

As for the sparking disapearing from time to time - it can be the problem with the switch off button on throttle.

I had this issue for a several times in the past till I replaced the throttle handle with a new one. I had this issue with the original Vittorazi throtle handle. This seems to be a perfect explanation for Parajet guys finding no wrong with the motor. This defect can occure from time to time, then disappear. I would try replacing the throttle handle mate.. 

Edited by Ivan
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Ivan - Not being an expert, but I can't see the reason being the throttle handle if I can't even pull the starter !!!

Simon - Hydro Lock.  I can see the reason for this, but to be honest Dan asked me to remove the spark plug and have a go and look inside (motor/starter still seized).  The sun was in the right place and I could see inside the hole and it was dry as a piston head :-)

The plug was dry, but dark in colour, I have sent a photo to Dan to have a look at. 

Cheers Tony

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Cas - Dan (Parajet) said it 'might' be a bearing (loose words thou).

But, it does not sound noisy now and the first time it seized after 15 secs on the ground.

Second time after 10 minutes in the air.  Third time after 5 minutes in the air.

Yep, real mystery :-)

When the weather changes the only thing I can do it take it up for a hour or so over the airfield and just sit and wait. Practice my 500 - 1000 feet spot landings (a positive view)

No confidence in the weather just yet! and the motor to be honest :-( don't fancy a XC yet.....

 

Tony

 

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If the bearing only just starting to fail ' he wouldn't necessarily notice any crankshaft play no, but if I couldn't find any external reason for the crank to stop solid it can only be inside ' I would have to split the cases just to see what's going on .

worst case or not a very pleasant case at least ' is the bearing get very hot ' goes tight then spins with the crank inside the casing that's not good . 

cas . 

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3 minutes ago, cas_whitmore said:

but if I couldn't find any external reason for the crank to stop solid it can only be inside ' I would have to split the cases just to see what's going on

Problem maybe was that the motor was not seized when they received it back at the factory!  and they thought I was mistaken and not sure of the real problem.....

2 minutes ago, kiwi k said:

balls could be breaking down

My balls are breaking down :-(

 

Of course the motor is still under warranty (until June) - so do you both think it is wise to take the motor back up for an hour or so and confirm???

Dan and I have spoken about this and he said it would be OK?

 

 

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IF it was mine i would be talking to Dan (Parajet) and Not asking but telling him, that as he knows there's a problem and it can not be verified what it is, i would want another new motor as its not fit for purpose, and legally all goods sold have to work for a reasonable amount of time, And this is not the case but its your motor so your choice, but have you not already had a spark problem ?, so IMO i think its just the bad apple in the barrel and your probably best getting it swapped. 

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As for flying yes it would be safe as you'll just glide back down but what does it solve ?, i think you'll find it'll just do it again and again so best shot of this motor and get it replaced, Parajet can then discover what the problem is in case it could be a bearing run problem ?, could prove to be a little recall on some of the Motors but at least they'd know for sure.

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I can see both your points of view and if I was sitting there I would say the same.  

It is always more difficult when you threaten people and then you're always on the back foot, bad vibes all the time etc.  They have been helpful as always.

I'm going to leave it for one more go and try it again over the airfield and see what happens.  If a problem it will go straight back again.

 At least it is documented here and by emails to Parajet if I do have problems - now that's looking on the negitive side :-) and a bit late for me ;-)

 

 

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Stop being soft man you paid honest money and deserve quality product end off, its not fit for purpose and how long before engine gives trouble again ?, and how long is you guarantee extended or not ?, Sorry to be harsh but companies make a profit for a reason to cover such problems !! IMO you know the answer SIMPLES :D

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I would fully check out your "consumer" rights.. Manufacturers have rights as well,  By all means take it back to Parajet but i think you will find they have 3 attempts to rectify the problem, Every separate issue will have 3 chances.. if your exhaust breaks, 3 exhausts, Starter X3 all with the same fault etc etc Not fit for purpose can only be taken to court once you have given them a chance to fix it..  DO NOT DO ANYTHING TO MODIFY!!!

If this Moster engine has a bearing fault or blows up next time he fly's it, This does not make it unfit and i doubt you would get a new Motor. A rebuild yes...  If you still think it has issue send it back to Vittorazi...  Some issues can be caused by the Owner,(I'm not saying the Above is) but  I've had this with a guy Screaming and shouting at me that his new motor was playing up All fixed in 30mins Cause was owner not reading the manual!!  

If your having problems Take it to Parajet and leave it with them until they have fixed it and test flown it...   If your local to us feel free to pop down and i will have a look at it with you.. 

 

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Don't start tinkering yourself or with any help other than Parajet. They will rightfully tell you to bog off if unqualified people have been tinkering with it. 

I am certain (as I am sure you know also) that Parajet will solve this problem. It may require that the engine goes back to the manufacturer.

SW :D  

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I have not tinkled with the motor - would not know how too :-)  And I have followed all the instructions from their engineers, but I  did refuse to remove the head and have a look!!

Not my job and not sure what to look for...

I'm thinking of phoning Tom again and asking for the motor to be returned for a test flight, because placing the motor on a test bench did not reproduce the fault.

My problem is time, the motor has done just under 10 hrs now and the warranty runs out in June.  Can they/will extend the warranty?

I am still gratefulI I purchased the motor from Parajet, because they have been helpful, but as yet not solved the problem.  

I was in IT and I know that most problems are 'user' caused, but I have used fresh fuel, castrol oil and a baby bottle to measure it.  So I can't be any more careful than that.

As for 'error' trying to start it - if you can't pull the starter cord to even turn the motor over even once - I bl&&dly hope I'm not that simple-minded.

Thanks for the offer of having a look, but as Simon mentioned I only want to follow Parajet instructions.

 

I'll let you know my next episode 

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No problem...  Offer is there.... 

I doubt the Warranty will be extended unless it goes back too Vottorazi and was rebuilt... Saying that If you have ben unable to fly it for X weeks/months A good will gesture of a slight increase in the warranty wouldn't hurt them and would be the right thing to do...   Call up P Jet i am sure they will sort you out..

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